Roughest 580ck ain't moving!

[alrman]

:lmao packratc - YOU WIN! :lmao

 

[packratc]

Alrman, I'm so honored. I'm at a loss for words! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------. I'm certainly proud that I could represent my county and take home the gold medal. Thanks you to my family and coaches for all the sacrifices they've made through my many years of training. To be here in London amongst all these talented people who have all achieved greatness for themselves and their sponsors. I continue to look foward to representing the Case Company as their emissary throughout the world. I will hold aloft the globe adorned with an albatross for all to see far and wide. May all I encounter continue to buy Case products, support tax-free internet sales and buy from the folks who hawk their goods on HEF. Oh! ---Yes, I did say I was left at a loss for words. Excuse me, a-a-a! I better go now, Packratc

 

[willie59]

Willie59, You're all wrong! They only way to truly understand the mix is to add the gaskets together as they go together on one assembly. The AA75089 was bought. They were replaced by AA76059. You got that, I know. Then you use AA75089 on the TWO pieces that make up the one. That two and one you add together. That makes makes three. Your part number is AA75091. Added to your machine number of 580 they are assembly 75671. Then when assembly 75671 doesn't perform you take it apart. Part 75671 becomes 75091. You're with me ain't you? Since these parts are no longer usable there's no need to take apart the three and add back in the AA was once A plus A. There's no practical use for this problem solving to break it down to A37545 & A37545. SInce you've got this already figured out, you just reverse the process with A76059 which is the sum of the secondly purchase parts that are now used but cost the same as the original. But I save the 9.75% tax as this is a farm machine. At this point we have discussed only 50% of the repair as the formula for the new used gaskets which are about 22.5 miles away are not yet present nor inthe vicinity of 580CK. This perhaps will occur on the afternoon hours of 7-31-12. I will go through tthe explanation of the upcoming joining of the A38029R & the A38030R which will become AA76059RR, if necessary. I'll have to consult the slide rule for the computation of the formula of the white lightin' gasket remover and what it becomes when added it to red permatex. I'm not sure all that will be able to be included in the scientific explanation for the future owners of '67 580cks. You understand that the contamination of the hydraulic fluid, red-pink paint ($160/gal),& old permatex alters any possiblity of scientific formulation that could be included in an addendum to the factory manual. That in itself is a can of worms since the 1967 manual may have to be reconfiqured since translation may have been contaminated from you DOS program could have been used on floppy disk in an Apple2e. There's always those factors that good scientists have to consider for the future of mankind. In the interest of the sheriff's department, that are in all likelyhood, monitoring these comunications, the clear liquid in the gallon and quart jars housed in the cabinet in the kitchen are my stash of gasket remover. You trying to get me busted, willie59? Jeez, I thought any East Tennessee redneck would know better thatn to talk about embalming fluid that may or may not be present on one's property. Keep it cool with the discussions about gasket remover. Keep in touch, but on the down-low, and I'll let you know the progress. Packratc

Packy, you need to sip a little gasket remover...you're thinking way too much.

 

[trevor b]

congrats packratc you earned it your a better man than my mother ever was! trevor b

 

[packratc]

Yanked off the valve assembly this morning and scraped off the old gaskets. There's like one hole different in each of them. One of them it is a blind hole. The detent spring tries to hold the two pieces of the assembly apart which makes it difficult to reassemble and make sure the gaskets stay in place. We just used permatex on the gaskets and held the two pieces together with bolts so the glue will set. Have to take off tomorrow as I got roped into being an election worker for the county/state elections. Will try to get it back together on Friday. Have to admit I'm sceptical that such a small difference in these gaskets can/will make this hoe move. But, I'm a hopin"! Thanks, I think, to trevor b. I'm sure his mother is/was a heckuva fine man/woman/person and we would all admire her. She reared a fine person in trevor b. He is a star of HEF and probably Facebook. Stage and screen careers are in the offing. We all celebrate his one year anniversary on HEF. Trevor b, I have a policy never to say bad things about ones mother. If she is/was like mine, mine birthed me but couldn't keep me from going down hill from that high point. But things are looking up for me. I'm headed toward a mouth without teeth and maybe I'll be in diapers again. Maybe I'll achieve that high point so Moma would be proud and forgive me for straying for all the years in between. She'd probably say right about now, "Why in the world did you buy a backhoe?" Packratc

 

[packratc]

Gotta get into the manual today and maybe some searchin' on this site. Hoe is back together & will go foward with no sign of reverse. Clutch will stop tires from moving foward & the brake pedals depress when the clutch is depressed. Is the clutch supposed to go in when one of the brake pedals is depressed?. It doesn't & I thought maybe it should. Hoe is still jacked up with rear wheels off the ground. I did let it down & it moved foward. It's on a concrete pad & I didn't want to drive it off of it so I moved it back with the bucket. Also want to include that when I upped the rpm with the wheels off the ground the wheels increased their speed. When I move the power spool by hand I can feel the reverse detent. I can move it by hand and move the hand linkage with it. I've left the limiting screw loose so I could move it further back. Made no difference. Have to be careful not to pull the spool all the way out again as I did this and had to put the ball and spring back in place again. Not a problem, though. Any more good ideas? I'm thinking if it has to come apart again, so be it. But, I would like to have some idea what I'm looking for. At this point all I can think of the lack of shims on the main shaft and perhaps wear in the torque tube for the seals. But, it was going into both gears when I took it apart. Thanks, Packratc

 

[alrman]

Assuming there are no parts left on your workbench (reverse idler gear?), the first thing you should do is test pressures. In particular, you are looking for a loss of pressure in reverse, indicating internal hemerage, likely a damaged piston seal

These are from a 580B manual with 3 position spool & not 100% sure if test ports are configured same as yours. Look for this info in your manual to be sure.

 

[packratc]

Tomorrow I'm going to run all the tests as stated by Alrman with the chart. The converter valve, beside the shuttle control valve has not been apart, at least by me. I just took it off and cleaned it, painted it, and put it back on with a new gasket. At this point I'm satisfied that I have foward gear but just not reverse. Need to know if I should take off the converter valve and take it apart to determine if it appears to be clean & free to slide. I would think it would work the same for forward and reverse, but I'm not sure. Would like advise on this is anyone has some. I'm trying to perform all the tests that I can to solve or at least pin-point the problem before I take this thing apart again. Especially since at this time I wouldn't know what I was looking for. Advise is appreciated as always. Thanks, Packratc

 

[packratc]

My hoe is a 580CK, serial number 8320001. Wanted whom ever to know that so they'll know that is was made before the changes that are discussed in the manuals. The oldest mechanic at the dealership calls it a "plain 580CK". As I stated previously today was the day to run the tests set forth by Aldrman. I started with test port "C" and got a "0" reading in foward and reverse. Went on to test #2. I got 190lbs. in foward gear and 100 in reverse. Didn't like that. When I pressed back against the stop screw with the lever, the reading would go up to 150 lbs. It seemed like the power control spool needed to go further put. I took it off the linkage and moved the stop around 180 degrees, to toward the left side of the tractor, so I could pull the power shuttle spool futher out to see if I could get a higher reading. I got close but it can't be hooked up like that and the wheels never started to turn on reverse. I went on to test #3 and got a good reading at first and then it dropped to zero. Too many things were not looking right. I called the dealership and talked to the oldest mechanic there. He said he was almost positive that they had an old manual there that I could look at it if I'd come up there they'd look it up. My manual is for a "B" and talks about having a neutral detent in the power shuttle spool. We discussed the fact that I have no shims on the main shaft to the 4 speed transmission. We talked about if you have correct pressure for foward the same pressure should be true for reverse. He says I've got shuttle problems such as a broken hook ring, the ones that ride in the torque tube, or a seal that's not sealing. He says he'snever seen a shuttle that didn't have some clearance between the shuttle and the transmission and that they always tried to set them at .028 clearance. Now, I think I can take the conver off the torque tube, the one that sits right in front of the 4 speed gearshift, and look at the end of the shuttle where the shims are suppossed to be. I can verify whether or not there is any gap in there. What do you think are the chances that one could start the machine with cover off? Do you think it would sling fluid everywhere? I'm looking for all possiblities to adjust before breaking it back down and also trying to think of all the things I could look for to be wrong when I do break it down. Thanks for any feedback! Packratc

 

[alrman]

Packrat your confusing me, the test ports on the valve are identified as C B & D. You describe your test as C & then 1&2.
Just to clarify if I have this right, you have the gauge in the C test port, was the 0 psi reading, as descibed in test 1 with clutch depressed?
Was the 190psi reading with the gauge in test port C & clutch released?
The pressure drop in reverse is a concern....... but even with 100psi there should be some effort to drive.
What is the dump spool (the other one) during during this proceedure? Is there anything binding it ? Does it look the same as picture?

Yours should be the lower picture - A37546

PS - it will throw oil everywhere if you run it with the cover off..... & what exactly is the "stop screw" you speak of?

 

[packratc]

Alrman, I started with the clutch pressure test whci is port "C". Port "C" is where the stock guage, the green-red-green guage, is plugged in. The refrence then is down the column of the chart with the guage still in port "C". Test number "2" would be with the clutch released and the shuttle shift lever position if foward and then in reverse. The refrence to "1" and "2" are the numbers at the left of the chart you provided. I guess what you're calling the "dump spool" is the flow control spool (by the manual) or the one attached to the "clutch". There is no binding. I'm not sure that I've ever had the flow control spool out. Think I will take it all apart tomorrow and take pictures of each piece for you all. All's I loose is another set of gaskets. Does the A37546 valve have one or two springs in the clutch pressure regulator valve? With a hoe this old I've gotta make sure that the parts are what I think they should be as they could have been changed or swapped around somewhere before this thing followed me home. Hope I clarified, if not, let me know. Thanks for your help. Packratc

 

[trevor b]

keep up the good work you will win the war some day! i think we both have a sick sense of humor and don't know when to quit. trevor b

 

[packratc]

Thanks, I guess, for the comment, TrevorB. I think you are trying to cheer me on to win the war. I'll need 25 lbs of TNT to really win this thing. You understand being a "Sicko" your bad self! Now on to the important stuff. Will have to hold pics off until tonight. Haven't got time this morning to think that much. Everything inside the control valve seemed to slide pretty well, except maybe for the clutch pressure regulator. But I had good pressure in foward so I think it was OK. As for as the Pressure Regulator Valve, mine has two springs. I thought the old machine should have only one spring. Am I remembering wrong? Then I took a new top gasket "A38030 and put it on top of the one that's coming off. The old one tore up any way. On the old gasket there's a large passage that it appears that the fluid tried to push through. In fact it had to be leaking around it. When I compare the "A38030" gasket to it, that "pushed through hole" is in the new "A38030". What I mean is that it is factory cut into it. I'll try to send pictures tonight of this but I'm tempted to put it back together with the "A38030" gasket and try it. Of course I've still got the old "A37544" gasket in place. That would be a mix of the old and the new. I need advise to determine if I have a later model power shuttle control valve or the old one. Thanks, Packratc

 

[packratc]

Well, I went ahead and took off the cover plate that's in front of the four speed transmission. This is the conver that has the dip stick and where you replace all the hydraulic fluid that is constantly dripping out. I took it off and the rear of the shuttle is exposed. It looks all nice and shiny. Just like it cost several hundred dollars, which it did. I'll try to send photos of this tonight. This is the mainshshaft where the round shims are suppossed to be between the end of the shuttle and the snap ring that keeps the shuttle fron crshing into the transmission. The shims are supposed to be included until you have between .025 and .045 inches of clearance. When I put mine together it had no clearance so I put it together with no shims. Today, looking at it further, with a flashlight, it appears that the snap ring is warped (sp?) and there is clearance on one side and not at the other. You can turn the shuttle by hand, easily, and the snap ring is in the groove all the way around, but the top or outer edge is bent toward the shuttle. So, how does this happen? Did one of us remove it with a screw driver instead of the reversed duck-billed pliers? The screw driver might have twisted it if it was just "muscled" off of there. Who knows? I really don't see straightening this spring steel snap ring while it's in place. Also the guy at the dealership that I talked to yesterday said he never remembered putting one together without some shims in place. If that's the case, even without the bent snap ring, it looks like my shuttle is longer, by a few thousands, than it shoud be. Any feedback? Thanks, Packratc
It looks like I'm destined to have all the problems possible for a 580CK. Aren't I the lucky one?

 

[alrman]

I need advise to determine if I have a later model power shuttle control valve or the old one. Thanks, Packratc

Most obvious difference I can see is the flow control spool.
Re the bent circlip - if it was forced by the shuttle pushing hard on it, due to an assembly problem, it should be bent toward the transaxle. Chances are it was already bent & you just never noticed.

 

[packratc]

Thanks for the answer, Alrman. Of course the control spool has one more detent for neutral. I would think that if the circlip were slammed into by the shuttle it would be bent all the way around. One end of it looks like it has good clearance & the other is bent toward the shuttle and is right up against it. It's all a guessing game at this point. Thanks, Packratc

 

[packratc]

,,,,,

 

[packratc]

One more of the bent circlip:, Would welcome comments or questions concerning the photos. Packratc

 

[packratc]

In the first photo, not the hole in the left gasket that looks like it's trying to tear through. Sorry, but I can't help but wonder if this is where the reverse fluid is going, or trying to go, and I just got a 100 pressure reading instead of the 195 I got in foward gear. Packratc

 

[willie59]

Packy, I can't say for certain, but those gaskets don't look like they match either of those components. Hard to say from just viewing pics.