• Thank you for visiting HeavyEquipmentForums.com! Our objective is to provide industry professionals a place to gather to exchange questions, answers and ideas. We welcome you to register using the "Register" icon at the top of the page. We'd appreciate any help you can offer in spreading the word of our new site. The more members that join, the bigger resource for all to enjoy. Thank you!

Roughest 580ck ain't moving!

packratc

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2011
Messages
405
Location
tennnessee
Couple of pictures from today. Adjusted the brakes to my satisfaction but I'll read what the manual before I decide to leave them. I think they have to be right as the "clutch" goes in when the brakes are applied. Few more hydraulic lines to hook up. One of the rubber mounts betwen the fuel tank & the steering column was missing. Made up one from a generator motor mount. These photos show the paint miscombination that makes it look like a Tonka toy. This old hoe had hardly any sign of a wiring harness. I hate wiring but I guess I'm going to have to make up a harness of sorts. Any hints would be appreciated. Best to you all, Packratc
 

packratc

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2011
Messages
405
Location
tennnessee
Well, hooked everything up and filled it up with fluids. Battery was dead so put the charger on it. Put 6 gallons in the transmission. Leaks at the bellhousing. Put 10 gallons in the loader. Starter seemed to drag. Heated it up and engine started. Couple of leaks. Loader shuddered a few times. Chico said it was in a bind. High pressure hose that goes back to the controls shudders when the engine turns over with the starter. Engine now doesn't want to start. Hydraulic lines are all hot as is the new spin-on filter. Need to do some reading as it act like there's a restriction in the loader/hydraulic system. Is there a bypass that should allow fluid to just circulate when there are no controls activated? I'm sorta thinking out loud here. Remember this has a new hydraulic pump but it was in use before the transmission went down. By the way, the spin on hydraulic filter that I replaced, the insides of it were caved in like it had too much suction for that application. Haven't adjusted the "clutch or the reverser controls yet. I only had foward when I tried it. The wheels are off the ground. The transmission still ground going into gear. The clutch did work well enough to stop the wheels from turning foward when the pedal was depressed. So, all is not well in middle Tennessee. Think I have to get the engine running like it was before all the surgery took place. I'll be doing some reading would be glad to hear you all's theories and opinions. Thanks, packratc
 

alrman

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2009
Messages
3,308
Location
QLD Australia
Occupation
Diesel Fitter;Small Business Owner;Cleaner
packratc,
Is the backhoe attatched yet? The inlet & outlet hoses should be joined up if you are running the engine, with the hoe removed, or the oil will deadhead (& usually destroy the hyd pump!)
Make 100% sure that all the backhoe/loader control levers are in the neutral position.
I must have missed the post where you have fitted a spin on filter to the hydraulics. Did you do that doing the 'refirbishment'? or before? - I would not run the machine with the filter 'caved in'.
Did it start leaking at the bellhousing, without running it? Were gaskets or sealant used? Or is it leaking out the hole?

Remember,"there is nothing time & money cannot fix" + alcohol sometimes helps.:rolleyes:
 

packratc

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2011
Messages
405
Location
tennnessee
Alrman, You are the man! I looked at that connection and the first drip I noticed was at the male end of the big connection to the backhoe. No, the backhoe is not on it. The fluid is "dead heading". One of the other leaks is on the right side, looking at it, of the hydraulic pump. It leaked previously. There's a large washer, maybe out of gasket material there and it looks like that has failed. It's a steady drip. Hope I've not destroyed the $500. new hydraulic pump. It's got about 5 or 6 hours on it at the most. I guess I can just fasten the two big fitting together, can't I, even though there's a lot of pressure there. Any danger? The machine had already been refitted to the spin on type hydraulic filter when I got it. The NAPA dealer just replaced it with the same number. I guess if the old one caved in this one will too. Keep in mind the outside of the filter has not caved in on the old one or the new one. As far as the bellhousing, it started to leak as soon as we put in the fluid. It's leaking around the housing itself and running down to the bottom to drip off. I put in a new gasket, the one that goes all the way around the bell housing. Is there another gasket at the bottom where we the oil pan joins in the mix? Thanks a lot! Did I tell you? You are the man! Packratc
 

packratc

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2011
Messages
405
Location
tennnessee
Oh! Alrman, I did go over to the backhoe where it lays propped up in the gravel. I made sure all the controls were in the neutral position. Packratc
 

packratc

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2011
Messages
405
Location
tennnessee
Today I went out and joined the female backhoe connection to the male connection. It took the pressure off of the system evidently as the engine started like a new one. Loader worked good. Still have the same leaks as mentioned above. Connection that I just made is leaking slightly. I think there is a replaceable o-ring or something like that that will fix it. Been reading on this site too refresh my memory about foward/reverse problems. Thanks again for your help, Alrman. Packratc
 

CasIns

Active Member
Joined
May 20, 2012
Messages
43
Location
New England
Nice work packrat. On my 580b it seems like from the factory there was a continuous gasket that went all the way around the engine/oil pan and sealed to the bellhousing. I think the replacements I got have a gasket between the engine and bellhousing and a half circle one between the oil pan and bellhousing. I haven't gotten that far yet with my 580b but it sure seems like you need a seal between the pan and the bellhousing.
 

packratc

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2011
Messages
405
Location
tennnessee
You may be right, CasIns! Chico and I saw that gasket and I thought it was provided for one to use if you were doing and in-frame engine rebuild. Reason I thought that was that the surface looked flat all the way around. But, I wasn't looking at it when we talked about it. I'll get the manual out and an old parts book and see if it's called for. Certainly I can drop the pan or spread the bell housing away from the engine enough to get the gasket in there if it's supposed to be. I'll let you know. Thanks for thinking for me. Need all the help I can get. Packratc
 

packratc

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2011
Messages
405
Location
tennnessee
Well it's a mere 93 degrees F here. We spent 4 hours putting in the gasket at the bottom of the bell housing. All 8 of the bolts that hold the backhoe suport to the hoe at the rearend housing have to be loosened 1/2". The two vertical bolts that hold the bakhoe support to the loader frame have to be removed. There are 7 or 8 bellhousing bolts that have to be loose. The top two are hidden by the power steering hoses that have to come loose. The mount for that housing has to be loosened to get at all the hoses. Don't forget to put a jack under the torque tube and the engine both. Pull both ends of the hoe apart and put in the gasket. We added some silicone for garnishment. Reversal of the procedure takes about an hour and a half of the 4 hours. Replaced some lost fluid and started it back up. No leak at the bottom anymore. Now the leaks at the bottom starter bolt. Got to find the gasket to seal the starter. When I replaced the starter I guess I just got a rebuilt tractor starter from the rebuider. I need to find out what makes a starter different for the wet bellhousing. I guess with the previous leak the fluid never got high enough to get to the starter. Now to the shuttle problem. packratc
 

willie59

Administrator
Joined
Dec 21, 2008
Messages
13,400
Location
Knoxville TN
Occupation
Service Manager
Two things make a starter different for a wet housing, 1) shaft of starter has a seal to keep oil out of armature housing of starter, and 2) mount of starter has a gasket.
 

packratc

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2011
Messages
405
Location
tennnessee
photo (78).JPG, You all have seen this many a time. I've got the 3.1 inches between the center of the bolt and the center of the cam follower. I think you can see the clean part of the spool. It comes out about 5/8". With all the new parts the "clutch" pedal only goes down about 2" for its full travel. Used to bea about 4 inches, I'm guessing. Also followed the manual instructions on setting the shuttle spool linkage. If you all remember we decided that my hoe didn't have neutral setting. I pulled the shuttle spool out until I thought I felt the detent and set it. The hoe has the rear wheels off the ground. Yesterday I could stop the wheels from turning by psuhing in the clutch. Had no reverse. Today the wheels turned slowly, I didn't increase the RPM from idle, clutch seemed to have little or no effect. Still no reverse. I had bought a new pressure gauge that was fluid filled. Had never installed it. Noticed that the fluid had leaked out of it. Am going to take it back to the folks and see what the deal is. I had it made for this application. I think I'm going to need it to start testing some pressures. I've got several concerns. When I put the shuttle back in the torque tube there ended up being no shims on the transmission output shaft in front of the snap ring. (was to measure between .025 and .045.) Also now I'm not confident that the correct gaskets are in the flow spool valve. We had discussions about which were the right ones and then I read somewhere that one of them could be put on wrong. In any event, I'm looking for advise on how proceed to test or find some gears. Remember when this thing came apart I still had foward and reverse, albeit they were weak, but I had fluid coming out of everywhere. Thanks in advance for all your help and advise. I need this part of my career to come to a close so I can get on the rebuild the backhoe controls. Maybe I can get it done before I go to bankruptsy court. Packratc
 

alrman

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2009
Messages
3,308
Location
QLD Australia
Occupation
Diesel Fitter;Small Business Owner;Cleaner
Sorry for a lack of response packrat -
It could be possible that you were supplied the wrong gaskets as I recall the Case parts man you are dealing with seemed to be getting your models mixed up.
The correct part numbers for the valve gaskets for the earlier 2 position spool are A37545 & A37544 (later 3 position A38030 & A38029)
Can you check your invoices & see what they sold you?
Hope you have sorted the pedal problem by now.
 

packratc

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2011
Messages
405
Location
tennnessee
Good to hear from you,, Alrman. Haven't looked at it for a couple of days. Had the guage checked and it's OK. Have misplaced my manual somewhere here. It's probably the biggest book in the house and I can't see it. My wife thought she moved it but ---! It'll show up and I'll do some pressure tests If I can figure put how. Invoices are filed where ever they land. I think I can find it. They exchanged the gaskets for me once. Not sure I have a pedal problem. Brakes are adjusted as per manual. The short stroke on the "clutch" I'm not sure is a problem. Do you think it is? Thanks, Packratc
 

packratc

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2011
Messages
405
Location
tennnessee
Here's how my life is the backhoe world! I buy these gaskets for the flow spool valve. They are A37545 & A37544. With all my larnin', expertieest, and molah gone down the tube, I'm smart enough to return those babies for an A38029 & a A38030. Now don't you all go lookin' at those numbers and writin' em down. I'll fess up & tell you what I done did. I had the correct gaskets in hand and paid for. I was so smart that I went & exchanged them for the wrong dang gaskets. And then I promptly put them in that hoe. Now that old hoe won't move. Tomorrow I drive 30 plus miles to repurchase the gaskets. But, how lucky am I? They just happen to have them in stock. And I'll just bet you that one of those bags will have already been open and torn right through the label where I tore it the last time. I have no idea how & where I got the idea that the first ones were the wrong ones. Don't matter much now. I'm just feelin' real good right now. It might not work but at least I have a direction to go in to get this ol' hoe outa the shed. And this good news comes to you courtesy of the Alrman of QLD Australia. If you curious folks reread a couple of posts ago, I hinted that I wasn't confident that these gaskets were right. He being the bright, learned, experienced professional that he is, researched the numbers and provided 'ol me with the information. What a guy! Thank you my down under friend. My best to you and your family. I'll keep you posted as to whether this get us rollin' or not. Packratc
 

alrman

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2009
Messages
3,308
Location
QLD Australia
Occupation
Diesel Fitter;Small Business Owner;Cleaner
Your welcome packratc, anything to help get Pandora up & running again
:drinkup Here's to hoping the gaskets will do the trick!
 

willie59

Administrator
Joined
Dec 21, 2008
Messages
13,400
Location
Knoxville TN
Occupation
Service Manager
Let me see if I got these gaskets straight; the first ones, that you thought were the wrong ones, were in fact the right ones. So you returned them to obtain the real wrong ones, and installed them thinking they were the right ones, had to be the right ones, since you [thought] the first ones were the wrong ones. So you figured out you were wrong, and that the [assumed] right ones were, in fact, the wrong ones. So now you're gonna go back and get the real right ones that you had in the first place. That pretty much it?

Question, what kinda corn squeezins do you guys sip on in middle Tennessee? :tong
 

packratc

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2011
Messages
405
Location
tennnessee
Willie59, You're all wrong! They only way to truly understand the mix is to add the gaskets together as they go together on one assembly. The AA75089 was bought. They were replaced by AA76059. You got that, I know. Then you use AA75089 on the TWO pieces that make up the one. That two and one you add together. That makes makes three. Your part number is AA75091. Added to your machine number of 580 they are assembly 75671. Then when assembly 75671 doesn't perform you take it apart. Part 75671 becomes 75091. You're with me ain't you? Since these parts are no longer usable there's no need to take apart the three and add back in the AA was once A plus A. There's no practical use for this problem solving to break it down to A37545 & A37545. SInce you've got this already figured out, you just reverse the process with A76059 which is the sum of the secondly purchase parts that are now used but cost the same as the original. But I save the 9.75% tax as this is a farm machine. At this point we have discussed only 50% of the repair as the formula for the new used gaskets which are about 22.5 miles away are not yet present nor inthe vicinity of 580CK. This perhaps will occur on the afternoon hours of 7-31-12. I will go through tthe explanation of the upcoming joining of the A38029R & the A38030R which will become AA76059RR, if necessary. I'll have to consult the slide rule for the computation of the formula of the white lightin' gasket remover and what it becomes when added it to red permatex. I'm not sure all that will be able to be included in the scientific explanation for the future owners of '67 580cks. You understand that the contamination of the hydraulic fluid, red-pink paint ($160/gal),& old permatex alters any possiblity of scientific formulation that could be included in an addendum to the factory manual. That in itself is a can of worms since the 1967 manual may have to be reconfiqured since translation may have been contaminated from you DOS program could have been used on floppy disk in an Apple2e. There's always those factors that good scientists have to consider for the future of mankind. In the interest of the sheriff's department, that are in all likelyhood, monitoring these comunications, the clear liquid in the gallon and quart jars housed in the cabinet in the kitchen are my stash of gasket remover. You trying to get me busted, willie59? Jeez, I thought any East Tennessee redneck would know better thatn to talk about embalming fluid that may or may not be present on one's property. Keep it cool with the discussions about gasket remover. Keep in touch, but on the down-low, and I'll let you know the progress. Packratc
 
Top