who makes the BEST dozer

[Deas Plant]

Thank you, Lashlander.

Hi, Lashlander.
Thank you for that kind comment, Lashlander. Coming from you, it speaks heaps to me 'cos your posts always make sense too.

Thanks again.

 

[Dozer575]

I have seen posts on other popular websites for equipment written by a guy named Ozdozer, I noticed he is on this one too. Many times he has said how good the Komatsu line of dozers is, especially the D375 his opinion seems to be well respected. When I started out dozing, just the opposite of what Deas says was true. The Cat crap always broke down, but the Komatsu kept running. I have spent many hours on the D375, as well as some of the tirangle cats, I have had more problems on those cats with tracks comming off that rear roller, transmission problems and electrical problems and the Komatsu was a fairly old series.

 

[Dozer575]

http://www.komatsuamerica.com/MiningJobStory1.asp


There are alot of mining companys that use Komatsu dozers, I know that it was the prefered dozer in Austrailia for chain dragging land clearing. I heard stories of the the chain pulling the cat machines apart.

 

[Squizzy246B]

There are alot of mining companys that use Komatsu dozers,

Yep, they keep them for Company anodes.

I know that it was the prefered dozer in Austrailia for chain dragging land clearing. I heard stories of the the chain pulling the cat machines apart.

I don't know where you are getting this from....but it is nor has been the case here. Millions of acres chained with 80% Cats...couple of 6's or 7's with an 8 chaser. There was more AC dozers around than Komatsu.

 

[Deas Plant]

Breakdown record and OzDozer's comments

Hi, Dozer575.
I have met OzDozer and have the greatest of respect for him in many areas, including 'Champeen' gear-stick breaker - - - - and 'Champeen' remover/repairer/re-installer of said broken gear-stick. An all-round good bloke and a fount of knowledge on matters relating to economical moving of earth and operating of machines that perform this work. (I might add that the broken gear stick was cracked about 2/3 of the way through before OzDozer finally delivered the 'coup de grace'. He just happened to be the poor unfortunate person operating the machine at the time.)

And, Yes, I do remember him making some comments about Kummagutsa D375dozers being good machines. I DON"T remember him making the same claims for the 475 and 575.

Now OzDozer may have had some good experiences with D375's and I don't doubt him for a moment BUT one model does not a good line of dozers make and the best dozer, or any machine, in the world can be very effectively killed off by a lack of service.

Many of our Australian coal mines WERE buying D475's in preference to D11's some 10 years ago. This trend seems to have completely reversed because of the limited longevity factor and the lack of service when the longevity factor rears it sugly head.

One of Australia's major contracting/construction companies (I'm talking international here.) back in the early-1990's started buying the 'blue-n-yeller' machines 'cos they couldn't get the 'almost-all-yeller' ones when they wanted them. Yer wouldn't want to know, that company doesn't do THAT any more. I wonder why????????

You mention the tracks coming off the rear 'rollers' of the high sprocket drive machines. For the sake of simplicity in this discussion, I will assume that you mean the rear idlers of these machines. Funny you should mention that. I haven't spent my entire life since these machines hit the market either working on or around them but I have never heard anybody else mention that as being a problem and I have never seen it happen either.

If it did happen, and I'm not saying it didn't, I would suspect a lack of maintenance of the bogie units to be the main problem as I have quite honestly been surprised at the LACK of track trouble that I have seen with the high sprocket machines. The major progress in track chain technology is, I suspect, the main reason for this.

I have yet to even see a Kummagutsa scraper or compactor, let alone operate one. I have only ever seen about 3 Kummagutsa graders and only operated one. I have operated more Cat, Kato and Hitachi excavators than I have Kummagutsa ones. I have operated more Cat dump trucks than I have Kummagutsa ones. I have operated WAY more Cat dozers than I have Kummagutsa dozers. And I have only operated the Kummagutsa loaders that I mentioned in a previous post and only one each of them, except for the D55S, of which I think I've operated 3. I have operated WAY more Cat loaders than that.

Now I wonder why this might be? Could it be that Kummagutsa is the as-yet un-discovered secret 'next BIG thing' in earthmoving equipment? Well, how long is it going to take to be 'discovered'????? After all, they only been on the market DownUnder for almost 40 years. Or could it be because they have been tried and failed to measure up??????

Another example of a different colour - The International TD24 dozer hit the market in 1947. It had, I think, 3 re-vamps during its production run. I started my full-time operating career in 1965, just 18 short years after the TD24 was introduced, and I have seen a whole TWO 'in the flesh' and have yet to operate one, even though one of the two I've seen currently lives just 5 miles away and is still a 'runner'.

This industry doesn't support 'also-rans' very well. The simple fact that Kummagutsas are still around and selling a few new machines seems to indicate that they are better than the International TD24. The other simple fact that they haven't achieved market dominance in nearly 40 years also seems to say something about them. You figure out what.

 

[Deas Plant]

Please, Get Your Facts Right.

Hi, Dozer575.
I don't know whether it has occurred to you yet but I LIVE in DownUnder, or Australia to you 'tother-siders'. I'm with Squizzy - who also lives DownUnder. In all the chaining I DID, I only ever saw TWO Kummagutsas. EVERYTHING else I saw or operated was Cat, D9's, D8's, D7's, D6's and even a D4 at one stage for a short time when a D6 actually did break down.

As for them being pulled apart by chaining, I saw and did a lot of chaining and sure there were breakdowns. But, in relation to the banging around that the machines got, I thought they stood up to it pretty well. I certainly never pulled the drawbar off of a Cat dozer chaining like I did with an Allis Chalmers HD16 dozer pulling a double-drum sheepsfoot roller. Now which would you expect to be the harder job in terms of strain on the machine??????

I might add here that there was usually more time lost due to chain breakages than to machine breakdowns, at least on the jobs that I was on.

In an earlier post, you mentioned that Cat had had a period where they had a LOT of breakdowns. May I put it to you that Kummagutsa is STILL going through such a period? And that they have for a long time had an additional handicap that Cat have never really had to Kummagutsa's current degree - a lack of service?

May I also respectfully suggest that you not try to tell the RESIDENTS of a particular country other than your own what really went on in THEIR country? All you have really achieved here is to air your ignorance.

 

[Wulf]

... I don't understand that statement because the bucket positioner on any of those loaders is adjustable....and you can set the return to dig angle to wherever you want it.

O.K., so I'll try to make it a little clearer...you raise it up to dumping height, the bucket itself is then tipped downward about 30-40 degrees.

This is a linkage design stuff-up and has absolutely nothing to with the cut-out itself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gR0NApJsGRE

Deas... I don't see that characteristic in the WA900 loader video posted a few days ago (around the 2 minute mark) I'm not an operator myself and the truck and loader are probably well matched for height clearance but it looks as though the operator uses boom kick-out on his loading height, dumps the load, lifts the boom a little, returns to dig with his bucket positioner and is ready to go. I don't see him doing the procedure to reset the digging position you described... or am I missing something.

 

[Deas Plant]

THAT Characteristic.

Hi, Wulf.
No, I don't see it there either so maybe it wasn't there on the WA900's or that is a later model and they have made some much-needed changes. You can take my word for it or not - I don't care - but it was there in the machines I operated and it was a PITA. (Pain In The A**.)

I suspect that it was a hangover from when Kummagutsa bought the Frank G Hough group because I seem to remember that some of the Hough loaders did the same thing.

 

[Wulf]

Hi, Wulf.
No, I don't see it there either so maybe it wasn't there on the WA900's or that is a later model and they have made some much-needed changes. You can take my word for it or not - I don't care - but it was there in the machines I operated and it was a PITA. (Pain In The A**.)

I suspect that it was a hangover from when Kummagutsa bought the Frank G Hough group because I seem to remember that some of the Hough loaders did the same thing.

I'll take your word for it and I do care Deas Plant.. however I don't think that Kummagutsa's wheel loader linkage has fundamentally changed much over the last 20 years or so. Loaders of all makes have more breakout force, lifting, manipulating and holding force but the linkage layout on the Kummagutsa looks much the same.

 

[Dozer575]

Deas I wish the folks that sell used Kumagutsa's would agree with you.
They sure command a steep price as a pile of what you would say scrap!
Funny they sell for close to the same price with big time on the clock as do the Catacrapa dozers do why is that?
You are suprized at lack of track trouble on the hidrives? You addmit to not being around them. I have and all it takes is the right size stone or tree and it will run it right off. I know Cat had to lower track prices to be able to sell dozers, since that rear wheelie tends to wear rails in a strange way.
I have a real good pen pal friend that lives in the land of OZ and used to do lots of chaining till your enviro global warming crowd put a halt to it. He is the one that said Komakazi is the preffered dozer, and how the Catacrudies just cann't hang in there. It seemed every time he did the D9 gig he was stuck pulling a transmission or torque converter or some other major deal.
Funny he sent me video's and photos of the dozers, I never saw a high sprocket affair in them. What it all looks like to me, is for some reason the Kumagotcha's you fella's get there is from China or Mexico. And here in the states we get the good Japan ones, but the catsypatsy's here come from where your Komagotta's come from.

 

[Deas Plant]

Kummagutsa loader linkage

Hi, Wulf.
The change that it would take to remedy that defect in the loader linkage is something that you would not notice unless you were in the know and had the correct measurements to check things against.

All it would require would be to move the rear mounting point of the bucket crowd ram up or down a few millimetres to change the parallel action enough to overcome the problem. Such a change would be so small as to pass un-noticed to all but those with specialist knowledge.

 

[CM1995]

You are suprized at lack of track trouble on the hidrives? You addmit to not being around them. I have and all it takes is the right size stone or tree and it will run it right off. I know Cat had to lower track prices to be able to sell dozers, since that rear wheelie tends to wear rails in a strange way.



What it all looks like to me, is for some reason the Kumagotcha's you fella's get there is from China or Mexico. And here in the states we get the good Japan ones, but the catsypatsy's here come from where your Komagotta's come from.

I don't know where you are getting your info on this either you have actual experience running hi-drives or you are getting second hand information but I have never experienced this problem. With several thousand hours on a D5N, D6N and D6R I have never had a track come off. This includes deep mud, clearing and grubbing, hard rock ripping and 1.5-1 slope work. Proper maintenance of an undercarriage is crucial.

Do you know where Peoria, Ill. is? The D6R and above are made there. The
D6N is made in Belgium and the G series is made in Japan. It is the company that makes the machines not the geographic location of the facility.

As far as the large dozers go - it is exactly what Deas said the "yeller and blue" are good for 2k hours. Drummond Coal operates several strip mines in AL and they tried Komatsu on the large dozers and of course they are running Cat now - operational budget was taking a beating running Komatsu.

 

[d4c24a]

are you

dozer 575 = d8bob or am i wrong come on own up

 

[Tigerotor77W]

Do you know where Peoria, Ill. is? The D6R and above are made there. The D6N is made in Belgium and the G series is made in Japan.

Just to clarify, not to attack, the D5N, D6K, and D6N are made in Grenoble, France. The Gosselies, Belgium plant makes excavators and wheel loaders.

The hydrostatic G-series is produced in Sagami, Japan. The D6G2 and D7G2 are produced elsewhere.

 

[CM1995]

Just to clarify, not to attack, the D5N, D6K, and D6N are made in Grenoble, France. The Gosselies, Belgium plant makes excavators and wheel loaders.

The hydrostatic G-series is produced in Sagami, Japan. The D6G2 and D7G2 are produced elsewhere.

Oops- the D6N IS made in France as well as the CS533E . The 325DL or at least ours was made in Belgium. The point I was making was that quality comes from the company - not where the factory is located.

I think the 953 is made in France as well. They still make D6G and D7G tractors? I was referring to the D3-5 model that is available in the US.

 

[RonG]

dozer 575 = d8bob or am i wrong come on own up

I agree it sure sounds like him.I thought that the first time you said it.You can't insult him just like this guy,he just pretends he didn't hear you)Ron G

 

[nilzlofgren]

We have a D61 with 1800 hours, and it is the biggest P.O.S.

 

[Tigerotor77W]

Oops- the D6N IS made in France as well as the CS533E . The 325DL or at least ours was made in Belgium. The point I was making was that quality comes from the company - not where the factory is located.

I think the 953 is made in France as well. They still make D6G and D7G tractors? I was referring to the D3-5 model that is available in the US.

Agreed with your first point. Track loaders (953D-973C) are made in Grenoble as well.

The D6G2 and D7G2 are only for sale in lesser developed countries -- namely developing areas such as China, India, Southeast Asia, South America, and so on. They don't offer the creature comforts/electronics (or high drive... *musing*) that we find here or in Europe and Japan.

(High drive comment is a joke... that tractor line never got upgraded, so it retains oval track. And there's bound to be a business rationale behind it as well.)

 

[CM1995]

I can understand why Cat still produces the D6-D7G. The R&D put into these machines has been paid for many times over, therefore Cat is able to produce a much lower cost machine without the bells and whistles to developing countries that need an alternative to a shovel and wheelbarrow.

 

[Scott_527]

I don't have any expirience with this stuff (just a wanna be) but here's what I can tell ya.
Finning Cat is Caterpillar's largest privately owned dealer, they serve westen Canada. This same area is also home to Deere's largest dealer, Brandt Tractor. A rep from Finning told me that in western Canada Cat holds over 70% of the dozer market (forget the exact # something like 73) , he said that the figure has held steady for the last 30 years.