who makes the BEST dozer

[ziggy]

I'm gonna have to use my inexperience and agree to disagree about shoveling and 3rd gear... I've seen D5's get stuck fast from improperly shoveled tracks in the winter. And 3rd gear might be a good idea (in addition to out running fire) if you're a push cat working with 657's or if the boss wants to pay for it, but not always. I saw two of our d8's strippin topsoil on the same job a few years ago... one never went higher than 2nd the other one spent most of his time in 3rd... at the end of the day, the bigger pile was in front of the D8 that was in second gear.

Every situation is different I agree, but just cause the dozer moves faster, doesn't mean it pushes more. I'm just saying:beatsme

True but thirds only for traveling,not pushing.When I used to train skinners I would have to continually tell them to slow down,put it in first in an idle if your finishing,better to have everything behind your blade "done" then to have to go back and redo it.
The 375 and d10's and bigger are made for production pushing mainly anyways and your working on the steepest angle you can slot dozing to max out the machines capabilities.So useing the weight of the machine and gravity your in first gear anyways.
Stripping topsoil is allmost allways second gear,hard to load up the blade anyways so might as well give er and get it done.


In the arctic we ran in temps as cold as -70celsius for 13 hours a day,not once did we clean the tracks on the cat hoes or the d7 and i never saw a flat roller or any other problems associated with not shoveling tracks in 3 years.I would take you 6 hours with hermys,tiger torches and bars to clean them anyways,just a waste of time.

 

[ziggy]

It may have a better ride than the older machines, but the contractors 375s we've had on rental are still rougher than the comparable Cat. I sincerely doubt you can "bump the horsepower up to unheard of levels" since they wouldn't build a feature like that into machine that you could access without a tech's computer. If you look at their specs on the machine, they always post the highest numbers to make their machine appear to be above everyone else....everybody does for that matter.....and they still only list the power as 610 flywheel hp. They also list the top speed as 11.8 km/h in forward, so unless you run it around everywhere in reverse, I think your speedo is off a bit. As for leaving the Cat's in the dust, maybe if you were all running in the same gear it would help. Once again, look at the specs, Cat has higher speeds in every gear except 3rd reverse, those are the same for both.



As for having enough power to free a stuck roller......that really has nothing to do with it at all. When a roller is not turning, whatever the reason may be, the rails simply slide over the roller and wear it flat since there is not nearly enough resistance between the two to turn it. I've seen tons of flat rollers from not shovelling tracks up here, but it's never a concern as it costs more in down time to keep the tracks shoveled than it does to change out a roller when it goes to the shop.

This one with the new undercarriage,raised rear sprocket and new suspension assembly coupled with the longer tracks make this machine smoother then any cat I have ever run.These arent 375's but 375a's which are a lot different then the older 375.I'll get back to you on the speeds as it's the komatsu guy that told me how to run in manual shift to get more speed,it's also them that told me they could get the horsepower up to very high levels,but its hard on fuel and in a newer machine it may void the warrenty.
i'll ask tomorrow when I'm back in the seat.

 

[ih100]

Not in the oilsands,you dont do what they want and they will find someone who will.They also pay very well,if they want you to go into the deep stuff and the chance of getting stuck is high,they will pay for the extraction and recovery.

With a over a hundred thousand hours on dozer,I have never seen where one has broken or wore prematurely from useing third gear.

Same with shoveling tracks,I have never seen a dozer wear out early because the tracks werent shoveled.

Now according to my calculator, Ziggy, you've averaged 8 hrs operating time on dozers every day including Sundays for the last 35 years, obviously a lot more some days as you've found time to operate everything else over 100 tonnes in Canada by the sound of things. Most of us have had lost days through bad weather, breakdowns and unemployment. I think I'm coming to live in Canada; no illness, unemployment or bad weather. No wonder you've never had time to dig the tracks out.

 

[ziggy]

Now according to my calculator, Ziggy, you've averaged 8 hrs operating time on dozers every day including Sundays for the last 35 years, obviously a lot more some days as you've found time to operate everything else over 100 tonnes in Canada by the sound of things. Most of us have had lost days through bad weather, breakdowns and unemployment. I think I'm coming to live in Canada; no illness, unemployment or bad weather. No wonder you've never had time to dig the tracks out.

I was actually being conservative but they were 12 hour shifts every day so 11 hours operating time in a 6 on and 2 off scenario for 22 years in just one place,construction,pipelining and other mining and oilsands ventures are more intensive shifts,49 on and 14 off in the arctic,those are 12 hours in the seat everyday,14 on and 3 off for construction,another 12 to 14 hours every day,in the oilsands it 18 on and 9 off at 11 hours in the seat every day,it adds up.

I didnt have my calculator but i can dig it up,im sure those numbers would rise then.
We dont shut down for weather in most of these jobs,being multiskilled gives you lots of hours,we rarely shut down in the mines for weather,the odd blizzard maybe,we dont shut down in the oilsands except for lightning and did I mention I have been working every single year since 1978?
Aside from a 7 week strike for the IUOE that was my only down time and i worked on a dam project during that strike.

Maybe we just work more hours here in Canada?

 

[Trakwork]

You and you're crew are hard workers. I've worked Union, non-union but prefer owner-operator. I pick my jobs and hours... less stress.. I Never work more than 6 hr days.:shf

 

[JDOFMEMI]

Well, 32 years of standard 8 hr shifts even with vacation and sick days is 64,000 hrs, so I would hesitate to question the hours claim.

Start working 6 days a week and 10 to 12 hour shifts regularly and 80,000 to 100,000 hrs would not be unheard of in that time frame.

For me, I will take as many hours as there is work available. those who are afraid of hours usually don't like to work with or for me.

Current recession is a different bit. Down to 8 hours when we can get it.
I am ready for 6-12's again

 

[ih100]

I think you're right about the longer hours. Here, the EU have come up with something called the Working Time Directive which states no more than a 48-hr working week averaged over I think 6 months. I think it was designed to make our manufacturing even less competitive than China and India. In the UK there is an opt-out, but we still have to have 1 day off a week or two off after 12 days continuous. Before that it was common to work up to 85-90 hrs a week on construction. I did it, but to be honest, nowadays a bit of home life is more welcome and I'm happier doing less hours at a higher rate. No desire to be the richest corpse, nor to think they'll be saying I was a hell of a hard worker after I'm gone. Even when I was working those hours, if I was on site 80 it wasn't often I managed to run 80, but then that was construction not mining and the maintenance wasn't as good.

Why does lightning shut you down when you can work through the rest?

 

[EGS]

Why does lightning shut you down when you can work through the rest?

Safety. They don't want anyone getting stuck by lighting.

 

[ziggy]

Well, 32 years of standard 8 hr shifts even with vacation and sick days is 64,000 hrs, so I would hesitate to question the hours claim.

Start working 6 days a week and 10 to 12 hour shifts regularly and 80,000 to 100,000 hrs would not be unheard of in that time frame.

For me, I will take as many hours as there is work available. those who are afraid of hours usually don't like to work with or for me.

Current recession is a different bit. Down to 8 hours when we can get it.
I am ready for 6-12's again

I havent worked an 8 hour shift since 1990.
We have modified shift schedules here in canada,4 on and 4 off or what have you,all are 12 hours or more per day,this allows people to have more time off as for the most part work isnt close to home,you live out of a hotel room or camp and your suitcase.
I'm also a private contractor with my own corporation,I work whatever one gets me work,if I cant get work as a contractor I go hourly.
Contracting can be brutal hours and we dont get O.T. as a contractor.

Right now I work 18 days on and 9 off,I have the option to work as many as the law will allow and make my own schedule,thats 23 13 hour days before I have to take one day off and then by law I can go do another 23 day stint.
You take the work where you can get it.
Long hours are a way of life for me.

 

[ziggy]

Safety. They don't want anyone getting stuck by lighting.

Because if you get hit by lightning your putting the rescue team in jeopardy,just being out in an area that would put them in jepordy is why you do assemble at a pre designated muster point when lightning is close.

 

[alco]

These arent 375's but 375a's

They've been 375A s for probably 15 years or so now. It's the -2, -3, -5 behind the D375A that makes the difference. We had a couple on rental from a contractor, and they are probably only 4 or 5 months old now, and the guys running them still said the Cats were smoother riding.

 

[ziggy]

They've been 375A s for probably 15 years or so now. It's the -2, -3, -5 behind the D375A that makes the difference. We had a couple on rental from a contractor, and they are probably only 4 or 5 months old now, and the guys running them still said the Cats were smoother riding.

This is a totally new design,new drive and suspension,new everything,this model is a totally new machine.
I have quite a few years running just d10's and they arent smoother then this ride,komatsu dealers bragged about how the big fault with the old ride was the final drive being on the ground,this one isnt,it's set higher and coupled with a whole new suspension system including one in the track frame as well as the boagies.
Thats why I say a cat will outclimb this,the tracks come loose when the track frame suspension works on the komatsu and the drive sprockets will jump on the rails.Thats what also makes this smoother on a long push.
The longer tracks also make it more efficient on a long push along with the ride,less feathering of the blade means you dont lose some of your load when pushing over rough terrain.
You also dont get the hopping that you do in a cat when you can feel every segment go over the rollers,the new suspension in the track frame makes up for that.
Im not brand specific like I was in my younger days where it was CAT or nothing,after running all brands of machines I find they all have good and bad points and all have certain applications where they excel at.
In a tight area a cat turns better with the shorter track frames,they also climb better,in a long production push the komatsu excels with the shoe slip control(cat doesnt have this) and the new suspension and longer tracks.
I'm still beta testing the 4 komatsus we bought,they will get many modifications in the next 6 months,some from us and lots from komatsu,they have many bugs admitted by komatsu that have to be worked out yet.
I'll try and post the good and bad about both as they arise as these are getting tested in some of the ugliest proving grounds you could ever put a dozer in.

I know my many years of running late model d10's and 11's showed me how reliable CAT is,with regular maintenance I went years without a single breakdown or any downtime,these komatsu's have to prove themselves to me,time will tell.The downtime right now is high and thats because they werent ordered with the proper modifications to be in the application they are in now which is running in 2 to close to 3 meters of mud thats the consistency of cold peanut butter.They also have a few bugs and there may be worldwide reprogramming of the computer system very soon along with some other major retrofits paid for by komatsu.

 

[Dr Komatsu]

You must be running the new D375A-6 . Do the CAT's a lockup clutch system when the engine rpm reaches a set limit.I know the D375's have this which makes a big difference in long pushes because you'rein direct drive with very little loss of power.

 

[ziggy]

You must be running the new D375A-6 . Do the CAT's a lockup clutch system when the engine rpm reaches a set limit.I know the D375's have this which makes a big difference in long pushes because you'rein direct drive with very little loss of power.

I checked this morning and it is the 375A-6.

We are having some problems with solenoids though,for the cooling fan and now the tilt,sometimes they correct themselves but for the fan it has to be replaced,the error codes help as we have the code book.
I heard they have a slight glitch in the computers that may need a retrofit but thats just second hand hearsay from the komatsu dealer here right now.
That may have something to do with these solenoids.

 

[steve.k]

Catvs Komatsu

I checked this morning and it is the 375A-6.

We are having some problems with solenoids though,for the cooling fan and now the tilt,sometimes they correct themselves but for the fan it has to be replaced,the error codes help as we have the code book.
I heard they have a slight glitch in the computers that may need a retrofit but thats just second hand hearsay from the komatsu dealer here right now.
That may have something to do with these solenoids.

I worked in a coal mine in Alberta(Genisee)and we had the D11n's and the 475aKomatsu's.The d11's seemed a little more agile when turning and a little smoother as the first 475's never had the bogey suspension setup.The later 475's had the bogey suspension that improved the ride.The 475's spent less time in shop and were quieter in the cab.I do remember also that Finning was going to quit warrantying the d11 brake systems which were failing quite regularly and the operators were brought in to figure out how we could change teqniques to save brakes,we mentioned the 475's were doing the same job with no problems maybe the Cat could do the same?Anyhow I have a hard time pickin one machine to be the best as each manufacturer has a class they dominate.
Steve

 

[ziggy]

I worked in a coal mine in Alberta(Genisee)and we had the D11n's and the 475aKomatsu's.The d11's seemed a little more agile when turning and a little smoother as the first 475's never had the bogey suspension setup.The later 475's had the bogey suspension that improved the ride.The 475's spent less time in shop and were quieter in the cab.I do remember also that Finning was going to quit warrantying the d11 brake systems which were failing quite regularly and the operators were brought in to figure out how we could change teqniques to save brakes,we mentioned the 475's were doing the same job with no problems maybe the Cat could do the same?Anyhow I have a hard time pickin one machine to be the best as each manufacturer has a class they dominate.
Steve

I'm running close to 980 hours now on one of the 4 komats we bought,so far,no problems except for what I mentioned in earlier posts,the undercarriage(rails and rollers) should get another 500 hours and thats 500 hours more then the d9t cats are getting in the same site.
I wish we had some d10's to compare against as that would be a bit more even.
As the mud were pushing is now tightening up with freeze up were able to push massive amounts of muck with no track spin,these komats will push into a mud windrow so far they will have a hard time backing out of it,they are pretty awesome in that respect and unstoppable as far as track spin(none) is concerned.
I should do a video tomorrow and get komatsu to pay me for the footage for their next marketing video,even a die hard cat man would be impressed.
If I do I'll post it on youtube next week.
I drive by the genesee and sheerness mines all the time when i take that road to fort macnewfy here.Highway 21 i think.

 

[Jasper]

which manufacture makes the best dozer small to large???

I'm no expert but I'd say Cat are the best. We have a D6 and a D10 on site, no complaints with either.

 

[norite]

I've had the pleasure of operating all the cats from D3's up to D7's and deere 350's and 450's. They were all great, as long as they don't break and could do the job at hand.

Every time the one I am operating won't start, breaks down or gets stuck etc., makes me wish I had one of the other ones.

 

[dingo]

it all depends on what your pushing. if it not to big use a cat. if its huge use a komatsu. the 575 komatsu is still the biggest and best there is!!!!!! plus it can run under water lol

 

[steve.k]

Cats aren't really as good as they are hyped to be

I've been reading through this forum and it sure seems alot of people are hyped on Cat.I have had the privalage to own and operate many of cats products and it wasn' until I bought my first Td25c that my thoughts started to change.Once we started to run the International line we found our down time dropped significantly from the 8 series cat under the same work conditions.After finding this out with the IHC equipment we started to look around and ending up buying Komatsu D60-D65's,John Deere 750c's and at the last some Fiat Allis Fd255 dozers that gave us exceptional service.Recently we purchased Case 1650 and Dressta Td20h all seem excellent so far.I give Kudos to cat who have done an excellant job at Marketing and looking after the operator in terms of comfort,but as far as reliabilty I don't beleive(at least from my experience) that they are any better than their competition at in some cases not as good.I am a firm beleiver if you are going to ask more money value for your product you better have that much better equipment and I dont think Cat has that angle coverd.We have had operators work for us that were die hard Cat and after time on the td 25c&Gs will not go back on the Cat equipment,especially once they get used to the 2-speed steering.We hope to try a new TD 25m in the future as the refinements to these dozers will be a welcome change.I do find it hard to pick one dozer that qualifies as the best so I have listed a few here,as for my favorite CAT well it would have to be D7G when on a scraper as I've had quite abit of seat time in those.Anyhow just afew thoughts.:beatsme