who makes the BEST dozer

[CascadeScaper]

Tiger, is the hystat system on the 1050C still controlled by a single joystick in the left hand? Maybe their re-knob operators couldn't run a tiller bar :bouncegri

 

[Tigerotor77W]

Yup, single joystick in the left-hand.

I spoke to an operator who commented that in rough terrain, it became difficult to steer the machine in a straight line because the control requires constant adjustment (like on a skid steer, as opposed to the detent position of small dozers of Deere and Cat hystats).

As for that tiller bar... I dunno... it certainly has its advantanges, but marketing really distorts its values (it seems).

 

[Ford LT-9000]

The Cats with the high walker tracks with the final drive up and out of the muck and gravel is better. The Cat track skidders all come standard with high walker tracks.

The tiller steer is to reduce operator fatique which is a must when your pushing on a hillside. At one of the local gravel mine where they are pushing material over a hill you need good control. I wish I had a picture of a cat pushing on the hill its pretty scary looking as your pushing material over a 60-70' drop off for the loaders at the bottom to scoop up the material and cart it off to the crusher.

A long time cat skinner told me when your pushing on the hillside and you go to far you just ride it out the Cat will stay on its tracks sliding down the hill like a tobogan.

 

[Dozerboy]

I demoed a 1050 about 2 years ago and IMO it was a POS compared to the D8R I was running and I'm not a big Cat fan. It rode ruff (steering was a problem), and you almost need ear plugs inside the cab with that hystat wine. After about two weeks I told the boss to have Deere come pick it up I wouldn't spend another day it in.

 

[Deas Plant]

Pushing over a drop/hillside.

Hi, Ford LT-9000.
Riding a dozer over a drop/hillside is all very well and good IF you have a continuous ramp all the way down and can take a blade of dirt with you. In that situation, I would agree with your old cat-skinner 'cos I've done it many times myself.

However, you mentioned that in your application you have loaders taking the material away from the bottom. This has the potential for disaster if you go over the edge, especially if the loaders have undercut the material being pushed over to any extent.

If you have ANY vertical or near-vertical wall on that face, especially at the top, you have the potential for an end-over-end. If the vertical section is at the bottom, i.e. undercut by the loaders, you also have the potential for a slip situation and when the ground that you are trying to stand or drive on is itself moving, you have NO control over your machine.

Thanks but I'll try to stay on top if there is any vertical involved.

You have a wonderful day. Best wishes. Deas Plant.

 

[tuney443]

Well,anyway,to partially answer the original question--the older John Deeres--350's to 550's in my opinion are the best with the shuttle tranny w/reverser.I've had 3 over the years,my 450D will out-produce newer Cats and Komatsus.The balance of the rig is unbelievable,either side-sloping or up and down.I'll try to post some cute pics of me pushing a JD self-loading scraper with my 450C.You just can't kill these things.:thumbsup

 

[16H]

The place I work has 14 bulldozers all Cats with 6 more coming we had komatsu dozers but they were unreliable and ruff, the 475s were very good for bulk pushing but horrible to trim or clean up for the excavators, I think anything over a D6 is Cat teritory:notworthy

 

[Wulf]

The place I work has 14 bulldozers all Cats with 6 more coming we had komatsu dozers but they were unreliable and ruff, the 475s were very good for bulk pushing but horrible to trim or clean up for the excavators, I think anything over a D6 is Cat teritory:notworthy

Curious as to which series of D475 they were and what type of blades they had.

 

[16H]

we had 2 D475 series2 with u blades good for bulk but not much else!!

 

[Wulf]

we had 2 D475 series2 with u blades good for bulk but not much else!!

Komatsu stopped making the series 2 about eight years ago. It's series 5 now and they are a tad different.

 

[Tigerotor77W]

Wulf, are you in the Oilsands region yourself?

 

[16H]

We had a 475XT on trial for a little while recently I didnt spend much time on it but the old 475s have been sold off to make way for D11Rs

 

[alextrunz]

Guys do you remember FiatAllis 31 and 41 dozers? A lot of power for a small amount!
As for Komatsu vs CAT - this discussion may last forever. I suppose that today's 375 and 475 machines are much better than older models. But CAT also do not waisting the time - for the advantage of all of us!

 

[D10N]

The Fiat Allis were a good machine, very good quality of build. But for a big machine, Cat has no peers. The big Komatsus are great, for the first 6 months are so, then their disposable construction kicks in, and availability goes straight down the drain. Last mine I worked at with 475's had about a 30% availability compared to 80% on the Cats.

 

[Deas Plant]

AC and F-A 41 and 31.

Hi, D10N.
I don't want to bust any bubbles here but the AC HD41 didn't stack up too well in the 'well-built' department 'cos they 'spat' a lot of final drives and track gear. The Fiat-Allis 41B was not a whole lot better. That is why the F-A 31 came to be. They de-rated the 41B to try to keep it together.

I will give you that HD41 and 41B could sure move dirt, in large lumps even - - - WHEN they were running - - - AND they could rip. But from what I saw of them, the Cat D9's tended to make up a lot of ground while the HD41's and 41B's were in the recovery ward.

VERY few of them came into Australia for the above reasons.

You have a wondeful day. Best wishes. Deas Plant.

 

[Dozerboy]

I got stuck on a 1050 again been a few days now and I still hate them. Another thing I remembered when the fuel guy showed up they really suck it down 150 gals in a 10hr. day, but I was work it hard at least.

 

[t3chw00di]

my 2 cents

I have to agree with the majority and say that cat is the overall winner.

Komatsu dozers are nice for a while when they are new, but they don't seem to stand up as well as cat. I've ran a few D61's and my main beef with them is that they don't steer once they are have a few hours on them. We've spent thousands replacing pumps and valves etc, and it still hasn't fixed them. I like their fast hydraulics. The cabs are too tight and there is not much storage area. I have a lunch kit and a 2 liter thermos (which I hate to have jammed behind the seat) The seats wear out fast and need replacing once in a while. They tend to start wabbling sideways. And the air flow (heater and A/C) seems to get restricted till there is hardly any.

Deere has made pretty nice dozers and I've ran 750's off and on for the past 8 years. The 750C series 2 is my favorite I think. I love the hydrostatic drive. No shifting and no need to use a brake. Fast hydraulics also. A lot of guys think the hydraulics are too fast, but after getting used to them, cat hydraulics are way too slow :thumbsup
This past spring I was graced with a new 750J, or so I thought...
There are some things I like better about the J over the C. The ability to set shift/decelerator/aggressiveness response in the computer is really nice. But I have 2 major beefs with the 750J. First of all is the undercarriage. I work on a lot of slopes building roads and subdivisions and when I'm on a fairly steep slope (steeper than a 3:1) the tracks try to fall off. Seems to us that the rollers don't have enough of a lip to hold the tracks on properly. They use the same rock guards as the C's use. It's a real pain when you are trying to trim something up and the tracks start grinding etc. I cut a 15 meter backslope that was 1.75:1 and it took me many tries more passes than it should have to get it looking decent. (Ask blademan. He seen me on that slope and was cringing)
My other major beef with them is that the dozer doesn't have near enough tilt. When trying to trim up around approaches and culverts it's impossible to get the bottom side of your blade low enough without cutting in on the top side. If you compare it to a cat D6N or D6R, the cat has at least 50% more tilt.
We have at least 3 of the J's that I know about......maybe more. We have also had lots of final drive probs with them. 4 final drives between them have been replaced in this past year, mine being in the dealer shop getting one done as I type this. Appears the seal just inside the sprocket went and dumped out the oil.
The 850's I really like. They have enough weight that they can dig, hold a load ,and turn better with a load on than the 750's.
The 950 and above I would stay away from. I only demo'd a 950 for a couple of hours and I really can't tell/remember what I didn't like about it, but it didn't feel right.
I also ran a 650H for a couple of months and to be honest I grew to hate it. First of all it's just too small for what we do. A lot of time we work in wet conditions and it just doesn't have enough weight/traction to push mud. It's also very rough riding. The reason is that there is no hardbar. The track frames are mounted solid to the mainframe and can't move independently so you feel every little bump.

From an operator comfort point of view I have to go with cat. They are definately the smoothest riding dozer and the 6N's have the best visibility I've seen so far. Rumour has it that I'm getting a new D6 (not sure if it'll be an N or R) this year with a GPS grade control system in it. I'm definately looking forward to that, but I'm not sure if it will make me a better operator or worse. I've heard stories about loosing your touch if you let it do all the fine work. I hope cat's slower hydraulics can keep up. haha

Anyways, sorry if I've bored you guys. Happy new year and all that.
t3ch

 

[farm_boy]

The 950 and above I would stay away from. I only demo'd a 950 for a couple of hours and I really can't tell/remember what I didn't like about it, but it didn't feel right.
t3ch

If you demo'ed a 950C, you should give the new 950J a shot if you get the chance. I tried a 950C and thought the same thing as you. This fall I got the change to run a 950J and there was a huge difference between the two. Deere really does listen to operators in the changes they make in their machines. This J was so quiet I kept reaching over to make sure the throttle was wide open. The ride was better than the C and the controls were like the 650H. They also canted the seat like the Cat. This is a ton better than the straight seat that the 950C had.

 

[CM1995]

No other manufacturer can touch a cat. Recently we demo'd a komastajunk D65 and a D6RXW. There is not even a close comparision between the two although the D65 is "the same size as a D6R". With about 300 hrs on the komatsu the blade bushings are sloppy and the tractor operates like a cat with 6k plus hours on it. The D6RXW is an awsome tractor for a mid size dozer. Good power, great balance and totes a ripper well.

Also demo'd a D41, which is also a POS- wouldn't trade our D5G for it.
I have not had the chance to run many JD dozers. I think they make a good small dozer but our dealership is not reliable.

 

[Tigerotor77W]

If you demo'ed a 950C, you should give the new 950J a shot if you get the chance. I tried a 950C and thought the same thing as you. This fall I got the change to run a 950J and there was a huge difference between the two. Deere really does listen to operators in the changes they make in their machines. This J was so quiet I kept reaching over to make sure the throttle was wide open. The ride was better than the C and the controls were like the 650H. They also canted the seat like the Cat. This is a ton better than the straight seat that the 950C had.

How much of Deere's design is Liebherr and how much is Deere? (more out of curiosity than to say that Deere doesn't design those dozers)