How many patterns are you competent on?

[digger242j]

My first post after the board is open for business, and I'm not sure where to post it! It doesn't just fit into on type of equipment, so perhaps it's a "personel" question...

Different manufactures have used different contol patterns on their equipment. I spent years on Case backhoes with pedal swing. When I got on a 580C that had John Deere pattern joysticks, it was like starting all over again (for a few hours). Then when I first got on an excavator it was back to school once again. My first skid loader experience was on a New Holland, and I was constantly banging the bucket down when I wanted to stop--my left foot was trying to press the brake pedal, but the brake pedal was in the backhoe. Got on a Case skidder and let my feet rest but had to wiggle my wrists. Ran a 310 Case highlift with a dry clutch, 3 speeds forward and one reverse, and steering brakes. Got on a 450 and had to learn that. Got on a 941 Cat and had to not only learn how to move the tractor and steer with my feet, but found the bucket control rolls and dumps opposite of what I was accustomed to.

So, to get to the question, how many control patterns are you accustomed to? And by that I mean, accustomed enough sit right down and be productive from the moment you start the engine.

Things are becoming more standardized, so I'm sure the younger you are the fewer patterns you'll see in your career. Older operators are probably going to be able to name some really unique pieces.

Just curious.....

 

[donlang]

I am going to show my age real quickly..........Case backhoe with 3 sticks and 2 pedals and sometimes an extendahoe lever, John Deere 2 stick, excavator two stick (called SAE), Ford 4 lever, IH 4 lever, Cat track loader controls, Cat rubber tire loader controls (different from track loader), Case track loader, IH track loader, Komatsu newer style with power shift and steering on one lever, Bobcat-New Holand and misc. "standard skid steer controls (2 travel levers, 2 function pedals), Mustang skid steer (T bar), JCB and new Cat skid steer with all travel functions on one handle and all boom and bucket functions on the other handle, Case skid steer (all on two handles but different from previous).........then to really foul up the works, get on a Gradall..........oh yea, Cat, John Deere, Huber, and Gallion road grader........most of them are different too.

Digger, you did a good job of making me feel old!

 

[Steve Frazier]

For quite a while the only thing I ran was my JD 310 hoe, it was the only thing I knew.

I came across some free fill where there was a Komatsu excavator on site, you were to load yourself. First few buckets I tried to load I damn near tore the tailgate off my truck! The boom and dipper controls were reversed.

I have a lot of respect for guys who can jump from one machine to another and make the pattern transition almost immediately.

 

[BKrois]

The person i was working for this summer could hop from his Akerman H10 blc excavator, to his D3 cat dozer, to the john deere 410 backhoe and run all them very well. He's also only 25, but has been in the business since 19. He would often switch from the dozer to the backhoe on a job we were doing and didn't hesitate.

After one has used a type of machine for a while you get used to it, even if you're switching from one style control to another.

Myself, i've run a backhoe once or twice, and used a Komatsu mini excavator a few times. For me, it's hard going from an excavator to a backhoe, just because i am currently not running the machines very often.


Steve- do you still have that backhoe or did you sell it?

 

[Steve Frazier]

I sold that machine to purchase my Cat 248, more suited to my current needs.

 

[cat320]

Ther was a guy that was doing the water and sewer conections in the street for us and did not have a backoe just a cat excavator I told him he could use my 580 case but said he could not work the controls to good.I can go both ways on the controls.

 

[paulsoccodato]

my backhoe and my excavator, both use the same pattern. (SAE- backhoe style)

i have used ISO -excavator controls, just takes a minute to refresh.

 

[Taylortractornu]

I started out on a back hoe when I was 13 or 14 on a 416 Cat and a JD 310. Then dad bought a 3550 Ford hoe with the controls changed like a case with a hand swing the left lever runs the bucket left middle runs the stick, the right middle runs the boom and the right runs the swing. I just bought a spare 4500 and its backwards and taking a bit to get used to it. Its left control runs the stick the middle left is the boom and the middle right runs the bucket and the swing is in the far right like mine. Its thrown me for a loop but I can hop from a TLB to a wheeled or tracked excavator no problems. The older wobble stick Case gives me some troubles the way the levers are mounted to the linkages.
I operate a few track loaders that are pedal steered hydrostatic like a Cat and a D66 Komatsu. I get alot of calls to come operate older machines like the older International Drott loaders.
I also operate alot of older excavators with foot and hand controls. The Drott Cruz air(Giraffe) The Cruz Air Is a PITA to operate, one left pedal on some swung it, ran the stick and the other foot runs the bucket and the right hand runs the hoist.
Most cranes vary from one to the other. Dad tought me when i first started to clear my mind and not think about it.

 

[digger242j]

Yeah, once your hands and feet learn what to do you can clear your mind. I have trouble telling people what sticks move what on the various patterns I know how to run, but as soon as I sit down I'm able to run them.

I knew a guy who was accustomed to running something else, I don't recall what it was, but he bought a 580 Case and couldn't get used to it. His answer was to get underneath and switch the hoses around where they attached to the control valve. His nephew jumped on it one day and smashed the door of his truck, because he forgot the controls were switched around.

An old friend of mine who was in the Pacific during WWII told me about an itneresting piece they found there. It was a big steam powered dredge that the Japanese had left behind. It took two guys coordinating the controls to run it, and they were on different levels of the machine.

 

[Taylortractornu]

Digger Jim I forgot to add the hardest thing to get used to when we were closing the land fill dad and I ran our 762 burnt out the clutch pack. I was used to having all the cotrols the shifter, hoist, ejector and elevator on the right side. plus you sat on the left of the cab. I had run it since i was 15 and then we had to rent a 412 Dresser. You sat in the middle behind a long nose and had the shifert on the left in a staggered patern and the hoist was in the right spot but the ejector lever was backward s with no detent on the dumping side loats of passes id not dump in the right spot. after a day though I was able la lay down layers up to 2 tenths at a time.
Talking about the dredge in the 70's before i was hatched the Tenn Tom waterway came through here. A friend of mine was an oiler on the mighty Empire dredge. It was a steam shovel powered by bunker oil. the hoist and crowd was in the upper deck and the lower deck was the swing and dump. After the Tenn Tom was done they sent i up north it was retired in the earliy 90's I it was used in the later years of the Panama canal when it was made. Wayne got to work up from oiler to crowd and hoist operator. He said when he was on the lower deck to make the hoist man mad he'd dump while the other man was crowding. Im trying to get a few pictures of the Empire from some folks I know. ALso on the same job they had 2 HD41's pulling the almighty Holland Loader.

 

[RonG]

Digger,I like your style..............showing pics of things we would all like to forget.I would deny everything if someone tried to tie me to that pic of the 580 against the house but we have all done things like that and if we are running equipment those things are going to happen.My main concern is always that noone gets hurt as a result of it.
I have been operating most of the time since 1960 when I went to Fort Leonard Wood heavy equipment school.I have pics of myself on a TD18 in Germany in '61/'62.
My question to you and others is "what would you rather run if you have a choice"?
I prefer a dozer I think.........I enjoy running most things but don't like to run them too many days in a row.I like variety. LOL
I think I just got layed off today,not sure yet..boss will call me later to let me know,we got about 18" of snow this weekend.
Ron

 

[digger242j]

Originally posted by RonG
Digger,I like your style..............showing pics of things we would all like to forget.

Thanks, Ron.

I took those pictures to remember my mistakes, and believe me there are plenty more that I didn't have a camera along for! I posted some of them here because, in large part, mistakes are what we learn from, and it sure is better to learn from someboy else's than to have to make them all yourself.

(BTW, there's a handful I haven't posted yet of something I did that was *REALLY* stupid....)


"I have been operating most of the time since 1960 when I went to Fort Leonard Wood heavy equipment school.I have pics of myself on a TD18 in Germany in '61/'62."

I still have the couple of dump trucks, the dozer, and the grader I was operating in '61/'62. They say "Tonka" on the side. (Actually, those may have been my most profitable years, but that's beside the point...)


"My question to you and others is "what would you rather run if you have a choice"? "

That's a great question. Actually, that question is probably worthy of it's own thread. Since it was your idea, I'll defer to you to start it as a "new thread", if you wish.

 

[Blademan]

Umm ,

lots . Have been running various pieces of equipment for some 30 of my 39 years . First started out backfilling services with a Warner and Swasy Hopto 900B , which had four levers and two sets of pedals . Then came packers , scrapers , trucks and graders . Some backhoe , and lots of bobcating . For the last several years though , it's been pretty much just a 140g/h graders . I mostly do road coring and gravelling . Having become a finish grader operator , I'm pretty comfortable in jumping in or on just about anything . Never did the paver thing , or cranes , and I doubt I ever will as operating cranes would require me to go back to school , and pavers .... well , although I like the smell of asphalt , it gets into your skin and permeates everything . As for a favorite , that would probably be the grader . Especially cleaning snow from parking lots . It's usually done while everyone is sleeping so you can go full out , yet have to be extra careful not to hit anything ( cold steel snaps real easy ,or does lots of damage ) . After six or so hours of just motoring , it becomes more like machine ballet . Everything gets stretched to your limits . i know it sounds corny , but you really become one with the machine . The feel , the sound , the reaction times seem to just blend together . I remember doing a 17 hour snow removal shift where i must of been flying on adrenalin , cause when I parked the machine and went to stand up ,my legs just gave out and had to catch myself . My knees were just shaking , and it took seveal minutes before I could climb out of the cab . But what a rush . These Toys for big boys are just soooo addictive .

Rob

 

[RonG]

We have a JD570B that I run once in a while but it seems that we are always so busy that we end up giving the processing to the paving companies so I can remain available for dozer work etc.
I know the feeling of being in sync with your machine....it seems like I have spent half my life waiting for a John Deere to change directions!!
I do enjoy the fine grading aspect of running dozers and graders because not everyone can do it and it does command the respect of your peers.
I often work alone and I almost prefer it as you have complete control of the outcome.It is satisfying to learn that the job took what it scaled out for within a ton or two when it is finished. Ron

 

[RonG]

Originally posted by digger242j
Thanks, Ron.

I took those pictures to remember my mistakes, and believe me there are plenty more that I didn't have a camera along for! I posted some of them here because, in large part, mistakes are what we learn from, and it sure is better to learn from someboy else's than to have to make them all yourself.

(BTW, there's a handful I haven't posted yet of something I did that was *REALLY* stupid....)


"I have been operating most of the time since 1960 when I went to Fort Leonard Wood heavy equipment school.I have pics of myself on a TD18 in Germany in '61/'62."

I still have the couple of dump trucks, the dozer, and the grader I was operating in '61/'62. They say "Tonka" on the side. (Actually, those may have been my most profitable years, but that's beside the point...)


"My question to you and others is "what would you rather run if you have a choice"? "

That's a great question. Actually, that question is probably worthy of it's own thread. Since it was your idea, I'll defer to you to start it as a "new thread", if you wish.

Thanks Digger242j,I will start it as a new thread.
I much prefer to remember other peoples mistakes............seems like I learn so much more from them,don't you think? LOL

 

[Birken Vogt]

Here we have an old Case farm tractor with a DEcelerator on the left foot, and the brakes on the right. It is a great control scheme for the way you run a farm tractor, flat out most of the time and chop it occasionally to do some tight manuvering, backing, etc. Also we have an SAE control backhoe.

So when my friend got himself an old Ford TLB, I thought cool. I can show him how to use this thing real good and it will be fun to run some (comparitively) modern equipment.

As you know I am sure some of the Ford backhoe controls are on opposite hands as the SAE. And the real getter was the loader controls which has an ACcelerator on the left foot! This was too much for me, as soon as I put that thing into a dirt pile I kept whacking that throttle wide open! Could not control it. I have a really hard time with that sort of thing.

Birken

 

[digger242j]

The small amount of time I've spent on dozers has been on Komatsus, with a decelerator. It does take some getting used to, especially when you go for long periods in between.

I don't think I've ever seen an accelerator at the left foot. That would screw me up too.

 

[shaper]

Lets start with dozers

Cat D5M, D6M Finger tip steering with a thumb flip for forward and reverse and push buttons for speed

Cat D6R Horizontal joystick for steering and twist the joystick for forward and reverse.

Cat D5G Hystat Joystick controls for forward/reverse and steering, joystick controls for 6-way blade.

Cat D3C Slide lever for 3 forward and 3 reverse speeds. Foot pedals for steering

John Deere 450/550/650E Slide lever for 3 forward and 3 reverse speeds. Foot pedals for steering

John Deere 450/650/700H Joystick controls for forward/ reverse/steering with buttons on joystick for speed increase/decrease


EXCAVATORS

Basically only two ways:

Cat controls(SAE) or John Deere controls

Seperate foot pedal for cleanup/grading bucket.
Electric switch for hydraulic pin grabber for quick swithing of buckets.

LOADERS

Two stick and one stick loader control. Most of your larger loaders will have two stick controls.


I use cat controls on a daily basis running excavators but on occasion I will have to run a backhoe with JD controls. I can do it without problem because of the physical location of the levers doesn't seem to confuse me. If I go from an Excavator with cat controls to one with JD controls it will take me a good 1.5 hrs to be somewhat efficeint.

My rule is if you have to think about what your hands are doing you are not experienced enough.

LANDSCAPE TRACTORS

Too many to even think about mentioning.
Kubota and John Deere are by far the best to operate though.


Jeff

 

[Taylortractornu]

The only things that has thrown me on an excavator was a friend bought an E70B Cat and it was set up with tlb controls. I wasnt real used to it. The next thing is Asian controls where your crowd is where your swing is and the swing is in the crowd position. Its like an old crane.
My spare backhoe I just bought has the true Ford 4 stick controls they are a bit od to me, mine is set up like a 3 stick case with the with a swing lever on the right. the new has a completely different arrangement other than the swing lever.
I tink the maddest Ive ever been was running a newr micican loader. It had an auxhilaryvalve. set and all. THe levers were nearly on the dash for the boom and bucket and they werent but about an inch and a half long maybe two inches. there wasnt much room betwwen them and they were in the middle of all the other remotes levers. It was hard to get the hang or feel of it. The self level wasnt hooked up so gettin it levelby sight was hard with the short levers.
That was one of the only machines i tried to purposely tear up. The same job had an older 980 Cat on it but they wanted to keep the hours down on it. I could run it all day with out being as fatigued as operationg the Volvo/Mich. They later rented a newer Volvo that had 2 levers and it was fine no over reaching, the levers and they hade some space between them.

 

[RonG]

Taylor,I agree on those Volvo/Michigans about those bucket levers.They are so close that you jamb your social finger in between the controls when you are using them.What do engineers do all day?
The L70 and L90's are just about the size that pipe crews would use and the visibility out the front of those machines is horrid!!

You really need to be able to see your man in the trench if you are doing pipe work with it.........actually,visibility is important for safety almost anywhere.Those hoses that loop up in front of you are right in the way.
What do engineers do all day?