D6c cat loss of oil pressure

[Steve.ahlgren85]

Yes, I know that I will need an engine with a precombustion chambers and understand that completely. When someone says you need multiple oil pumps on the exchange, they mean hydraulic pumps, correct? I am doing a complete power wash today, starting to dismantle the engine. I will post pictures of the crankshaft and bearings. Thanks
Steve. .

 

[old-iron-habit]

This might be a dumb question but I will ask anyway. Doesn't the engine oil pump, located in the oil pan, supply all the lubrication of the engine components and if not, can I use the pumps off my machine now, that is if I swap parts from one machine to another?
Thanks so much for your input!

Yes, You will need a oil pump setup for a crawler so it will pick up oil when not reasonably level. I don't think I would risk a pump off a damaged engine on a good doner engine.

 

[Steve.ahlgren85]

I am planning on purchasing a new engine oil pump. The pump off the damaged engine, I will not use again. The responses that I have received on this forum about purchasing a used pump pretty much changed my mind on that idea.

 

[D6c10K]

Yes, I know that I will need an engine with a precombustion chambers and understand that completely. When someone says you need multiple oil pumps on the exchange, they mean hydraulic pumps, correct? I am doing a complete power wash today, starting to dismantle the engine. I will post pictures of the crankshaft and bearings. Thanks
Steve. .

I think what they mean is the engine oil pump is different on a dozer than a truck or stationary engine. On a D6c there are two oil pickup tubes in the pan so that when you are on steep slopes the engine doesn't starve for oil. If I remember right the pump itself has two sets of pump gears, one for each pickup tube.

 

[Steve.ahlgren85]

Thanks for clarification!

 

[Steve.ahlgren85]

I finally found a replacement engine for my cat d6c. It is a 3306 pc out of a new Holland forage harvester. It is rated at 270 hp. My question is, can I use the fuel pump that comes with the machine, or do I have swap out the fuel pump from my original machine?Zeigler caterpillar in mpls. said that fuel pump would have to be thoroughly cleaned of metal contamination before switching pumps. Just like to know if it is possible to use pump coming with the donor engine? Thanks. .
Steve

 

[thepumpguysc]

As you've learned by now, you cant do a dam thing w/ cat w/o your engine serial & arrangement #'s.. same w/ injection pumps.
Same engine can have different rpms, fuel delivery and torque settings..
& even if you have all that information, you have to find someone willing to look and compare the information.. good luck.

 

[DMiller]

Check arrangement numbers for both engines as to timing(cam), injector flows, injection pump timing etc. Then look to pistons and hard parts for variables. New engine may be decompressed for higher fuel delivery and not care for low fuel supply for lower HP or different timing angle.

 

[Steve.ahlgren85]

If I use my original pump on the "donor "engine, will that work?

 

[thepumpguysc]

:beatsme :Banghead

 

[tctractors]

Steve, thank you for starting this Thread as it's proved to be a "Classic" on 2 points, 1 is not understanding anything, the other point is not taking a blind bit of notice of anything said, please prove me wrong and get this tractor back working again, have you removed your engine and stripped it out yet? the last thing you need is another engine to mess about with.
tctractors

 

[Tags]

Steve, thank you for starting this Thread as it's proved to be a "Classic" on 2 points, 1 is not understanding anything, the other point is not taking a blind bit of notice of anything said, please prove me wrong and get this tractor back working again, have you removed your engine and stripped it out yet? the last thing you need is another engine to mess about with.
tctractors

TC is spot on Steve, slow down and read what these guys are saying, the amount of advice they have given in this thread is PRICELESS and you're not paying attention to it....I hope you get her going again but start absorbing the advice you've been given or you'll just be throwing money down the toilet...

 

[Steve.ahlgren85]

Engine is stripped, everyone I have talked to said pretty much the same thing, either get a rebuild engine or find a used replacement.I only will be using the machine for some land clearing and landscaping. Zeigler caterpillar said crankshaft on the ends is wore down past the plating, bearings have spun, everything has to be bored oversize, just would not be cost effective. Rebuild or find a donor engine. Thanks for the response
Steve ]]]]

 

[Steve.ahlgren85]

My theory is that there was so much play in the crankshaft front main bearing which developed the oil leak up front by the front seal causing vibration from the oil pump gear, causing the oil pump bolt casting to break, resulting in engine failure.

 

[kshansen]

My theory is that there was so much play in the crankshaft front main bearing which developed the oil leak up front by the front seal causing vibration from the oil pump gear, causing the oil pump bolt casting to break, resulting in engine failure.

I'm thinking the failure of the pump was the result of the failure of the engine due to lack of oil from running with a leaking seal or some other reason. By the time the main bearings got to the point the pump gear bolt broke the engine was already scrap and the pump was trying it's best to keep it alive. I'm just amazed this engine was able to fight for it's life to this extent!

 

[DMiller]

Have to agree with Hansen, I have been a wrench for all too long and have seen engines taken to the limit of life, is not the oil system that fails but hard engine failure that destroys the rest. Oil pumps just flow as much as they can, cannot make up for excessive clearances. Bearings fail from lack of lube not lack of flow, too much clearance allows oil to flow away too fast and not thru bearings. Mains get oil first, then rods, and a dribble sent to the camshaft bearings/bypass filtration, lose lube pressure the cam goes first then the rods then the mains unless the mains starve out from excess clearance.

 

[Steve.ahlgren85]

Good theory but the oil level never got below the add mark .

 

[DMiller]

Level does not mean pressure nor does it mean clearances are not too wide. An oil pump will attempt to make up for clearances by the closing of the bypass valve, these are set to a maximum pressure at factory to keep from flood damage to bearings. You can float engine bearings out with too much pressure. A main bearing wears every time you start an engine, there is some lubrication from residual film but until the oil pump makes suction and delivers pressure to the engine those bearings are running for the most part dry. They shave a little material each time with cold weather starts the hardest to get oil moving, hot weather starts the most severe where oil is thinnest lube quality. Dirt/carbon/wear metals within the oil just adds fuel to that fire and dilution with excess diesel thins it out ever quicker. As wear increases the amount of drain back from those same bearings increases causing ever harsher wear, these are not splash lubricated.

 

[old-iron-habit]

Level does not mean pressure nor does it mean clearances are not too wide. An oil pump will attempt to make up for clearances by the closing of the bypass valve, these are set to a maximum pressure at factory to keep from flood damage to bearings. You can float engine bearings out with too much pressure. A main bearing wears every time you start an engine, there is some lubrication from residual film but until the oil pump makes suction and delivers pressure to the engine those bearings are running for the most part dry. They shave a little material each time with cold weather starts the hardest to get oil moving, hot weather starts the most severe where oil is thinnest lube quality. Dirt/carbon/wear metals within the oil just adds fuel to that fire and dilution with excess diesel thins it out ever quicker. As wear increases the amount of drain back from those same bearings increases causing ever harsher wear, these are not splash lubricated.

Its to bad engine manufactors did not keep putting compression releases on engines. The old Cats with pony start were to have the compression released until the engines built oil pressure. Thats probably the number one reason along with low RPMs that they were still running 60 years and more later. My 335 Cummins in my 1971 KW classic has a compression release cable in the cab. My instructions from the previous owner was to always pull the compression release and hold it until the oil pressure came up. Only takes a few seconds and it is spinning fast and starts instantly when I push it in for compression. I'm sure it will never happen but all engines should have a compression release in my humble opinion. It would help blow any water out also when folks have a bad day with water intrusion.

 

[D6c10K]

Can't tell you whether it's possible to swap pumps from the higher HP engine but......
Is this a sleeve metering fuel pump? They may be thinking of a different style pump because if I remember right, the sleeve metering pump on my D6c doesn't use engine oil for lubrication...it's only fuel lubed so there shouldn't be contamination from the engine problems.