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CAT vs. CASE

Discussion in 'Tractor/Loader/Backhoes' started by jazak, Jun 10, 2007.

  1. jazak

    jazak Senior Member

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    OK, I know everyone has their favorite brand. But WHY do you like the CAT better then the CASE or vise-versa? What is the pros and cons of each machine? Which one works better in which conditions then the other?




    FYI please DO NOT post; "CAT" or "CASE". I want to know which one yo ulike and WHY.
     
  2. Duke

    Duke Senior Member

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    I like the CASE Cummins/Case diesel engine a little better. I think it might be a bit more HP, but that might have changed with the newer models. Although it's tough to find much fault with a Perkins.

    I liked the fact that my CASE was made in USA, the CAT is made generally in England.

    I like the locking diff button on the CASE loader joystick better than a foot actuated pedal on the CAT.

    I like CASE's lower overall cab height & lower overall backhoe boom height. The machine overall is a bit smaller. It looks to be about 7/8's the size of a comparable CAT, which is better for my needs.

    I think CASE might give you one or two more gauges in the gauge cluster to monitor your machine.

    Those were the reasons I focused on Case over CAT, because they suited my situation & needs better.

    However, CAT has advantages over CASE, like bigger front tires, just to name one of many, I'm sure. I can think of lots of reasons to buy CAT over CASE if I were in a different situation.

    I think a lot of the decision comes down to what brand's dealer is in your area and how well they'll service your needs. ;)
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2007
  3. dirtmerchant542

    dirtmerchant542 New Member

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    I like Case. They feel more stable to me on unlevel ground. They also have the same power as the cat but in a smaller package. I find I can load a truck faster with the case cause i can do it in 2nd gear. And what is with that curved boom on a cat? i could never get use to that.
     
  4. Cat420

    Cat420 Senior Member

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    Unless we're doing jobs in tight conditions, I really love the size of our Cat. HP is similar to the 580s we used to rent, but it seems to put it to the ground better. Maybe a combination of weight, transmission, and torque range of the engine. I'm constantly amazing at the things I can push around. The first day we had it, I used it to pull our GMC 6500 out of the mud. It had a full load of rocks and was buried so much that you didn't need to use a step to get in. I pulled it out while the truck in neutral like it was nothing.

    The backhoe also has very high digging forces (I believe similar Cat and Deere machines are withing a few hundred pounds of each other). With a full front bucket of dirt, I can pull stumps with the e-stick fully out. It has pushed down some immense trees too. There's pictures on here somewhere of it pushing down a 3 foot pine. It's almost boring digging with only a 2 foot bucket, because it pulls it through the ground so effortlessly.

    The loader end is also good to use as a result of the way it gets power to the ground. The speed of the hydraulics is very nice when loading trucks. The hydraulics are faster than Case (not my opinion, look up the specs). I almost never have to touch the brakes to let the loader clear the sides.

    The cab is huge! When we looked at it before buying, my first impression was how big the cab was. Everything is in just the right place too. Some of the switches are a little cheap feeling, but only one has broken. There's also and electrical condition messed up somewhere, because the fan likes to cut out sometimes. The rear window is easy to slide out of the way and stays latched no matter how hard the machine shakes. The side windows are also easy to latch and release.

    I'd still use a Case any day, but our Cat was cheaper than an older smaller Case with more hours in this area. 01 420D 3,000hrs $42,500 vs 99 580SL 5,000hrs $50,000. I don't really care for the Case dealer too much anyway, they kind of got a little too big too fast to care about the little guy. There are 2 Cat dealers within 40 minutes and at least 5 withing 2.5 hours. It was really a no brainer for which machine to buy.
     
  5. DigDug

    DigDug Senior Member

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    I am a Case 580 fan. I have had 4 and presently have a 580M. The machine is small enough to fit in tight spaces and plows snow great , good visibility, push button locking rears. Also a good dealer to deal with. doug
     
  6. LowBoy

    LowBoy Senior Member

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    Occupation:
    operator, driver, service, J.O.A.T...master of non
    Location:
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    C an't Afford Something Else.
    A
    S
    E

    C an't Attempt Serious Excavation.
    A
    S
    E
    :falldownlaugh

    I have to admit, I stole these from someone else here, but it's still all good...:laugh
     
  7. Duke

    Duke Senior Member

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    "Can't afford something else" doesn't make much sense since they're actually only second to CAT in price for a new machine.

    "Can't attempt serious excavating" would apply to reall all backhoes. None were designed to excavate huge holes like an excavator.

    I know, it's all good. ;)

    CAT420,

    What's the HP rating of your Perkins/cat diesel?
     
  8. Cat420

    Cat420 Senior Member

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    88 Gross, 85 Net. Peak torque of 468ft-lbs@1400rpm. Torque rise of 27%@1400rpm. It's the 3.98L 3054T
     
  9. biggixxerjim

    biggixxerjim Senior Member

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    C- Constantly
    A- Assembling
    S- XXXXXX
    E- Equipment

    Ive run them all from a 580K to L to M, and a 416 B, C and 420 D.

    Case - Good visibility, comfortable cab, better balance front to rear than the Cat. Thats about it. Sure is smaller too, which never worked out for me.

    Cat - Nice cab, good visibility, pilot controls were nicer than Case, Little things wouldnt go wrong as much as the case, more back hoe power, faster hydraulics, bigger front tires (believe me, this is a HUGE difference) smooth shirfing trans, cold A/C, rear window design is superior, much better resale value.

    To 420D- I can't believe anyone would sell a Case hoe that is 5+ years old and that has that many hours for 50k. Another 25K and you could buy a new one. I suggest you go kick them in the arse for me:cool:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 10, 2007
  10. JDOFMEMI

    JDOFMEMI Senior Member

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    Well, I am not really in the backhoe market that much now, but in the late 90's, I needed a newer backhoe to replace our 500 SuperK because of all of the new utility work we had. We demoed a 426C Cat and a 580 Super L Case, each with about 1500 hrs or so on the meter, and comperable price. Wed worked the 2 machines side by side for a week, and the Case was the clear winner by a large margin.
    Here are some of the things I found:
    The Cat did not have enough pull with the extendahoe to use it in the digging cycle, while ths Case would pull through harder material with the extendahoe, allowing a longer dig with each set up.
    The Cat struggled to pull itself up onto a large muddy pile with its hoe, and did not have enough power for the tires to assist., I parked it, got the Case, and it pulled right up onto the pile.
    The spec book says the Cat had more lifting power, but when setting 36" RCP, The Cat could not pick it up at the required distance to set it in the ditch, but the Case would, although barely.
    We brought the Cat and Case sales rep out one day and ran a side by side dith digging test, with me on the Case and my top hand on the Cat for a half hour, then we swithed machines for another half hour. We were digging in Nevada hardpan, 24" wide, and 3' deep. At the end of the hour, the Case had dug about 25% more ditch.
    We bought the Case, and a few years later, needed another hoe, and we got a really good deal on a 426C, so we bought it in spite of our good experience with the Case, which had not broken down, save a hose or 2.
    The Cat went into the shop at 2500 hrs with a blown rear diff, and worn out brakes. At 2800 hrs, the e-stick broke in half, I am told by the dealer this is common???? and Cat has an updated replacement we can buy (no warranty on our used machine) 200 hrs later, the loader frame broke in half at the cross tube. also needed 2 new swing cylinders. at 3500 hrs, the brakes were failing again, loader arms were cracked again, and we were generally dissatisfied with it.
    I just sold the Case with over 7000 hrs on it, and it has had a starter and alternater replaced, a few hoses, and a front planetary fail due to lack of lubrication (Oiler didn't put oil in it)
    This machine was used even harder than the Cat, because we new not to use the Cat very hard, as it was always breaking down.

    I will probably be in the market for a backhoe again, and it will be Case all the way.
     
  11. Cat420

    Cat420 Senior Member

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    Oh they wanted well over $100k for new ones ($120k for some:eek: ). Why anyone buys from them is beyond me:beatsme

    edit- I guess that's why I have never understood the "Cat is too expensive" argument. In my area Cat is priced like everything else, sometimes lower.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2007
  12. mflah87

    mflah87 Well-Known Member

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    I like Cat for their power and strength, but I do a lot of street work so it gets tight and a nice small machine like a case 580 is ideal. When I started my company I had a dynahoe 190 and a mack b61 sixwheeler. After the dynahoe i bought a case 580C then a 580 D then 2 580 Es. I made a lot of money with those machines. The only Case series I didn't like was the k's mine had a ton of electrical problems and the cab rotted out even with my picky cleaning. I had 3 L's at one point then the case dealer went out and it went a few years with no dealer so I started buying Cat's. To think of all the abuse I put those machines to and they kept rolling amazes me. My Cat's couldnt take the beating I gave those 580s. All in all I think Case makes the best machine for longevity, but the Cats have a little bit more strength for lifting manholes and such. I know this is a little off subject, but I have a Cat M322C that I have had a number of problems with simply stuff but aggravating when you have to pay someone to sit their while the mechanic is on his way up.
     
  13. Duke

    Duke Senior Member

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    If you want "bigger front tires", all you have to do is buy a 580 Super-M "plus" or a 590, both models have the same size front tires as a CAT and it's still a cheaper machine, plus you get a limited slip front differential :cool2 The 580 SM + and the 590 have a bigger spread on the stabilizers, too. They are more competitive with CAT's oversized machines. The CASE Super M I just bought is beautiful for tight spaces and going under low overpasses, tree branches, etc..

    A/C??? My A/C will freeze you out of the cab on a 95* day with no problem. I find myself turning it off because it gets so cold.

    Like I said, if I was doing something different, I might like the CAT better.

    Personally, I'm glad they differ a bit from each other. That way each "trade" can take advantage of different machine's strengths.

    To sit here and just call one or the other "junk" is ridiculous. Neither are junk. They're both excellent machines.
     
  14. lgammon

    lgammon Senior Member

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    both are fine machines

    dad ran case machines for the first 30 years of buisness. and we have no complaints at all the are great machines. well last winter we decided it was time to trade. well the old case dealer that we had delt with for years died and his dealership was shut down, great old guy to work with. so we go to the new guys place. the had a 580sm plus with 3-4oo hours on it, no new machines there. they wanted 92,000 for it. and wanted to give us 35,000 for ours. went to the cat dealer picked out a new 420e loaded with a few more options than the case, they wanted 84-87,000 for it and gave us 42 for ours. so we had to go cat. when you get a 5 diget price differance it is had to walk away. i think the case we had has more break out force, but i think the cat is alot less top heavy. i like the cat but i still think that case maybe a better machine. but really the differance is so small i don't know if i would give a grand more for one of the other
     
  15. Ford LT-9000

    Ford LT-9000 Banned

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    I haven't run a Cat but I would take a Case to any other brand backhoe especaily JCB.

    I find the Case more stable they have good vision,better constructed its not cheap like the JCB I was running.

    Dealer support is far better with Case. Case has been building tractors far longer than most other brand backhoes. There are many old 1970 Case backhoes and old tractors with backhoe attachments still running.
     
  16. mtb345

    mtb345 Well-Known Member

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    two things i dislike about the case 1 the wide front tires and the boom when you have to put it in transport mode it seem like it gonna hit you in the nose. i guess after 10 yrs on the 420 i dont want to run anything else
     
  17. cat320

    cat320 Charter Member

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    I'm a case guy probably always will be. I have driven cat and deere they are nice but being used to my 580 feel it is best overal. Price wise i think cat is banking on the name not they don't have a good machine .case/deere i think have been making the tlb longer. there is things i like in each.

    Nothing wrong is likeing a machine that you might have been brought up on .
     
  18. Duke

    Duke Senior Member

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    I actually like DEERE & CASE the best with CAT a very close 2nd. All 3 machines would work fine for me. All 3 are excellent. I'm just going by preference.

    You won't get any "Ford vs. Chevy" kid-stuff, brand bashing out of me on these backhoes.
     
  19. jazak

    jazak Senior Member

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    Thats not what I was looking for when I started this thread. I have never owned a backhoe and was just wondering what you guys thought of those two brands. I've only ran a CAT 420D IT a couple of times.
     
  20. digger242j

    digger242j Administrator

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    So, obviously you two are on the same page with regard to that sort of debate. I think Duke was just trying to reinforce that any such brand bashing would be counterproductive; not to suggest that that was the reason for your post.

    (Thankfully, we haven't seen much of that yet anyway.)