Case 580B shuttle pump...

[Dodgeman]

Thanks Dave and Joe for your advise, I believe the seller said the transaxle had what he called "tractor hydralic", Not sure if he meant TDH fluid or not, its a clear fluid. In the shuttle is ATF for sure though. My driveway is not steep and it will not go up it in 2nd gear unless really giving it the fuel, but when I get to the road I can put it in 2nd and it will go. And, If I were to push some loom I need to pretty well open the throttle in 1st to do so. I am new at these machines, but it dosen"t seem right. I don't have a Manual but must get one. Any idea how much Hytrans it should take, and would the filter be ok, it was changed recently? Worst case seniero, could it be the shuttle, and is that a big job?

P.S. Thanks for the friendly welcome and advise guys!!!

 

[dwloop]

Dodgeman,

The owners manual puts the power shuttle reservoir at 16 qts, 15.1 liters. I can tell you from experience it takes several changes to get the oil completely flushed out, as there is a torque converter that holds some oil.

The shuttle is really like an automatic transmission but with a manual shift that cannot be changed on the run. So think about your car starting out in second or third gear with no first to get it going. If I put in second or third it takes some throttle to get moving and my 580B pulls about as good as any I have seen in the past. After moving mine will pull a fairly good hill in third at speed, but does slow down on long grades. The ATF is considerably thiner viscosity than the TCH (Now HyTran), that will effect the torque converter's efficiency quite a bit IMHO... The filter is in front of the radiator, the housing has four bolts on top of it, a drain on the bottom. I would drain and flush the shuttle tube several times if needed, then change the filter at the last change. The shuttle filter is Wix number 51518...

BTW, the trans-axle holds 17 qts, 16.1 liters if you want to change it back to the 90 wt that should be in it.

Welcome to the forum, and trying to keep one of these old girls running...

Dave

 

[ijoker]

Dwloop, What you just said about the volume of the shuttle fluid is a lot better than i understood before. I saw right here on this forum somewhere, memory escapes me, that the shuttle holds 10 gallons! 4 gallons sounds more plausible since i had to fill the shuttle on mine when i first got it, and that is just about how much it took. But i was thinking that since i read where it takes that much, that the shuttle still had maybe 6 gallons in it. Your account of 16 quarts must be right if you are reading it from the book. I don't have one. :Banghead But does that count the amount the torque converter holds? I know it can't hold no 6 gallons! That would have to be one humungus torque converter.

 

[dwloop]

ijoker,

The only way one could come close to 10 gallons would be to count the shuttle and trans-axle together. Although the converter holds some oil, it does not stay completely full after shutdown for several minutes in my experience. The manual states to check the shuttle oil after running the engine for several minutes to charge the system, shutdown then immediately check the oil level. After a period of shutdown the oil will drainback some and the level will rise on the dipstick quite a bit above the full mark. When I changed mine several times earlier this year, I would drain and then measure out exactly four gallons to refill the shuttle. The dipstick would read way high above full until restart and run for a few minutes. I believe that is one issue that some may have with this unit is that they check the shuttle level when cold and therefore run the shuttle oil level too low for good operation. Without a operators manual you wouldn't know that little tidbit....

HTH
Dave

 

[ijoker]

Yeah, thanks for that Dave. I did just what you said. I filled it to the full mark while it was sitting cold. The machine has been running fine, but now that i know, i am going to have to do go back and check like you said. I mean, if you think about it, it is just like a automatic transmission on a vehicle. Those you are supposed to check with the transmission warmed up, and the engine running. I suppose a guy could do it that way, couldn't he? :beatsme I really need to get some books. I just haven't really looked yet because money is tight with being unemployed. I am getting closer to just bucking up and doing it. They sure would be handy. Cheers, Joe

 

[Dodgeman]

I'll make sure to change out the ATF for HyTrans for sure then. I don't have a Case dealer nearby and I called a couple of places today to try and get Hytrans. They all have something they are calling "the same thing". But since I really don't know and really want this to fix the problem, I will make sure to get the real thing. I have bit the bullet and ordered a manual on-line. I plan to get the AFT flushed out and changed as soon as possible, maybe even this weekend Thanks for the info yet again guys, I will be sure and keep you posted on the progess, my fingers are crossed(well, they will be)..... Jason

 

[ijoker]

Dodgeman, If they are telling you that they have the same thing as Hy-trans they might be talking about regular tractor fluid. That is basically the same thing. If you are talking to reputable people that know their oils, they usually won't steer you wrong. Be careful though because you could end up spending more money than you need to. Last bucket of Hy-trans I bought was $42.00. I got it at a local oil company. It turns out they are cheaper than anybody else. Shopping around pays off. Don't be too hasty. Definately don't buy it at a parts store, you will end up paying too much. Been there. Done that. $94.00. OUCH! :Banghead Likewise i have heard that case oils are high as well. I wouldn't consider that if i could avoid it. If you find something that says transmission/hydralic fluid, that is the same thing as Hy-trans. It is a universal fluid. You can use it for your hydralics as well. Happy hunting! Joe

 

[dwloop]

Dodgeman,

As Joe stated, find a quality replacement that is speced the same as HyTran (MS-1204 - MS-1210 I believe). In SE Missouri where I have mine, the Orscheln Farm and Home stores sell a good product that is rated. Stay far away from the '303' oils that some sell, they are not what you need.

Here is a link to what I use Orscheln Hy - Tran Oil

HTH
Dave

 

[Dodgeman]

Dave,
I'm not sure what you mean by 303 oils, can you clearify? Thanks

 

[dwloop]

Dodgeman,

It is a standard for a tractor hydraulic oil sold at many auto and farm stores. It is not formulated for wet clutches and brakes.

HTH
Dave

 

[Dodgeman]

Dave,
Thanks so much, yet again. I was planning to get fluid for my "b" tomorrow, and hopefully I can come across the right stuff. I have the shuttle draining as we speak. I just hope this will help it move. Thanks Jason

 

[truckerx]

hi everyone! my 580 B wouldnt move and i drained both drain-plugs underneath the torque tube.dirty nasty hyda/transmissin fluid came out-about three quarts- my service manual says sytem take 4 gallons!or 16qts---------hmmmm-so I crossed my fingers and added one gallon of dextonlll ATF and two gallons of hydra/transmission fluid- and tried to pull out of a muddy field where i had been stuck, i had to pinch myself after i reached safe ground, I felt like I was driving a new tractor- so much smooth power- every thing i learned was from this forum-i havent added the additional gallon, have to remember the filter,lines,and cooler may indeed hold close to a gallon and I dont want to blow any lines or seals!overfilling any system can cause so many problems-hope this helps guys!

 

[truckerx]

p.s. there are two plugs near the shifter on my 580 B- the one behind the shift stick is for the gear oil 90 w-80w and holds 17 qts.its the transmission and differential housing-the metal fill plug in front of the shifter is under a steel plate- thats the fill plug for the torque tube-it holds 16 qts of tractor HY_tran fluid- some people have used a mix of ATF fluid at 25% and 75% Hy-Trans to help improve sluggish response especially in cold weather-

 

[dwloop]

Truckerx,

That is a good looking B!! As far as the Dextron mix, I prefer to use what the JI Case company intended for the shuttle to run. :my2c I have had no issues with cold operation yet. I am glad you got yours running, it is very frustrating to have one not pulling, I know from experience.

BTW: The seat is UNDER the ROPS, not on top!!

Dave

 

[Dodgeman]

Hey guys, Just wanted to let you know that I got the new oil put in her, and there is no noticable difference. Back to square one I guess. Should I check the screen on the suction tube for the shuttle pump? or is there a way to test it? My gauge in the dash run in the green, and drops off when you push the clutch. Where should I start? Thanks

 

[dwloop]

Dodgeman,

The pressure should drop when you push in the 'Clutch'. It is not actually a clutch but a pressure dump valve for the shuttle. What mine did with a plugged pickup was it would hold good pressure with the shuttle lever in neutral, but as soon as I put the shuttle in forward or reverse the pressure would drop to almost nothing. That was due to the pump not being able to keep up with the flow demand of the shuttle pack pistons. Once the pickup tube was cleaned and the trash removed the presure stays at above 200 PSI in both forward and reverse. Test that and see if it holds in neutral, but drops pressure in forward or reverse. If it holds in the green in gear, it is bad news I am afraid... I have a full service manual for the 580b (Real original paper copy) that has the diagnostic pressure tests for the shuttle, to perform these you need a hand held gauge and hose assembly to connect to various ports. Let me know if I can help you in any way...

HTH

Dave

 

[Dodgeman]

Hey dave, I did just get a manual online on a cd. It has a pressure test proceedure for the shuttle pump. I plan to get the various fittings and hoses need to test it, when i do I will start a new thread. I might be awhile though(building a house). I'll get at it as soon as I can and post the results for your diagnoses. Thanks again

 

[dwloop]

Good luck Dodgeman!! With both the house and the shuttle...

Dave

 

[g ryan]

Phil, thx for all the info,I can't find U'r pic's with the TWO measurements for drilling the cleaning hole for the screen. Any help..??Did U post them..?
My trouble is loss of pw'r in both foward and reverse, also it's intermittent, it seems to catch while playing w/ the shuttle control handle. Should I
check the pressures: one on the valve plate and the 2nd one is where ?? Thx G ryan

 

[alrman]

Welcome to the forum g ryan!
Unfortunately for us, Phil is AWOL. Someone asked the same question about the drilling a little while ago, here is the thread - https://www.heavyequipmentforums.co...huttle-pump...&p=262250&viewfull=1#post262250
Keep looking here using the search feature & you will find everything you need to know - LOTS of 580B shuttle info
Your intermittent problem could be adjustment - the same above thread deals with it.