Case 580B shuttle pump...

[rory381]

Hello, new poster here. We have a 580B with the shuttle stall problem. After reading quite a bit on here, we decided the shuttle pump/control valve was likely causing the problem. After pulling the shuttle cover plate, the suction tube screen was about 1/2 covered with gunk, as many people here have found. The pump shafts were wore quite a bit as the drive gear had excessive side to side motion. The gears appear worn slightly (approx O.D. = 1.700"), but could probably be salvaged. The housing and cover have light marring (less than 0.020") and could be resurfaced.

This pump appears to be an aftermarket pump, with the bushings being split bushings and made of thin material. While the case-o-matic farm tractor pumps we have are thicker & solid bushings.

After all that, my questions, has anybody been successful in rebuilding one of these shuttle pumps? Or has anyone heard of converting one of the case-o-matic farm tractor pumps for use in a 580B? Anybody willing to part with a used pump in fair condition?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Phil]

I can't see how one could feasibly repair the damage done by the O.D. of a gear touching the housing of this pump. I have seen some of these somewhat worn and still working okay, but yours sounds worn-out.

Possibly the aftermarket pumps are direct from China or India.

There is a cavity in the torque tube, located just in front of the pump pick-up that is hard to clean out. Debris will accumulate in there and come back to cause problems. Phil

 

[rory381]

Case 580B shuttle pump

Ok, we investigated the wear on the pump housing and gears yesterday. The housing sidewalls checked out with little to no significant wear. And the gears are worn, but still within acceptable range.

The plan is:
- resurface the housing where the side of the gear has wore
- resurface the cover
- bore the shaft holes in the housing and cover to accept the thicker case-o-matic bushings
- make new shafts to original dimensions (minus snap ring groove)

Any ideas about the surface hardness for original case pump shafts of this sort? I'd like to make it wear resistant as possible without specialty material processing.

 

[super L]

My B recently got to where I was having to ride the shuttle pedal to keep trans pressure up and it didn't want to pull even in first gear. I pulled the shuttle pump/plate off and saw the suction line was totally plugged with trash. Pump shafts had some thrust but within acceptable range. Gears and shaft looked good also. Went ahead and re-sealed shuttle valve (spools were good), new TCH/filter and flushed torque converter case. There was a thick layer of old trash and grease in the case sump. To flush sump before installing the shuttle valve and plate, I filled the TC case with about 3-4 gallons of diesel and took a long wand on my air line and blew into the case through the diesel and let it bubble good for about 5 minutes and drained. Repeated this process 10 times until the case sump was clean. Also rebuilding some other things on it while its down so I haven't tested it yet

 

[1bigbass]

Hi. I am a total newbie and am glad I found this site. I bought an older Case 580-b and have a problem. I can be working my machine and it will be doing fine then it will refuse to move in forward or reverse. After sitting for a while it will start moving again but slowly and only at high rpm's. I hope it's a simple fix, it's a great machine. Any help would be greatly appreciated. thanks.

 

[super L]

Big bass, I'm sure you read my last post about my 580B. Dont know if your machine is diesel or gas (mine is diesel), the power shuttle like mine, hydrostatic shuttle or mechanical shuttle but after reading about it, your machine is acting identical to what mine was doing. I removed the shuttle pump and suction line that drafts from the sump end (rear) of the torque converter case. There is a screen on the end of the line that can become plugged with trash and other foreign objects that find their way into the case over time. Causes can be dirty oil, irregular trans filter changes and so on. It appears that the previous owner of my machine also went in the tranny at one time and made the mistake of using way to much of the wrong kind of permetex on the pump plate and pump gasket. This permetex can find its way into the sump and plug up the suction line also as well as plug up oil passages in the shuttle valve. Going back together I used a thin coat of non-hardening black gasket sealer, just enough to keep the gaskets in place during installation. Tip: If you decide to tackle this job, there is quite alot of stuff you must remove in order to get to the shuttle and pump plate. Besides the obvious stuff, majors are the steering valve, numerous lines, brake linkage, throttle linkages, floor boards, shuttle pedal, valve cover and rocker assembly in order to remove the fuel tank as the pump is located directly under it. I also ended up cutting off the rear tank mount studs about an inch from the tank to ease tank removal. Once the tank was out, I removed all the mounting studs and went back with bolts. I would also recommend tearing the shuttle valve down for inspection and re-sealing it while the spools are out. Also be sure to check your rocker assembly for wear and adjustment. When going back with it, there is a drilled tower bolt that acts as an oiler bolt to keep the assembly lubed. On early model B's, this bolt must thread in the middle tower hole. On later model B's like mine, this bolt must thread in the rear hole. You will need to check your serial number to detirmine if your B is early or late. Regarding the shuttle valve, BE SURE to make a note where the detent ball and spring are under the valve while you are removing it. This detent ball and spring are located toward the front under the forward/reverse spool and can easily fall into the torque converter case while removing the valve. You will see the detent notches at teardown. I have since finished the job and the machine has plenty of trans pressure now and pulls strong once again in any gear. Good luck

 

[1bigbass]

Wow! Thanks Super L. I can't ask for any better than that. I will check the serial no's and see what year model I have. Sounds like a good project for the coming winter months. I'm pretty sure this is my problem after reading all the posts on this subject. And I'll need all the luck I can get, but I do love a challenge! Thanks again, Don.

 

[clarkie]

In search of shuttle filter housing for 580b

Hello,
New to site, I've posted a few times about my 580b " shuttle problems" I can not seem to post other than replying to post. My problem is: recently bought a 1974 (8753134) 580bck. I am having shuttle problems. I changed fluid and upon changing filter found that there is no filter or filter housing(in front of radiator) cant fiqure out why someone would bypass filter?? Upon doing pressure test forward and nuetral have 250 psi and reverse has 0. Transmission pressure gauge is in green when in forward and neutral but in red when in reverse. Forward engages as it should. However, reverse I have to idle down or rev up to get it to engage sometimes having to wait 10 seconds to engage. Any suggestions?? Could this be the spool valve and just need running? I don't know previous history of tractor, I bought this thing at an auction. From my research the engine has been replaced it now has an A201G gas engine model # 2640600. the engine runs very strong. My issue is the shuttle. This machine has power shuttle with torque converter. I plan on changing fluid again but I would like to locate a filter housing before hand. Does anyone have an idea where I could find a used one.
I will take all and any suggestions to get this old girl operating as it should.

Thank-you in advance,
Todd

 

[clarkie]

Looking for suttle filter housing on 580b

Hello,
I just took grill of of my 580b to see if there was something I was overlooking. And sure enough there was. The input and output on bottom of radiator have been capped, so that explains why there is no filter housing. There is approx. a 4' piece of line with fins on it about 1 1/2" diameter that loops around and bypasses the filter housing. Any recommendations???? Maybe fabricating a filter housing and running lines as they are suppose to be. Called around looking for housing and was told new one is no longer available. I'll try salvage yards, I didn't want to pay full retail anyway. If anyone has suggestions I'm all ears.
Thanks again,
Todd

 

[Phil]

Clark,
Welcome to the forum:drinkup
I've attached a picture of the area in question(filter housing is marked). Sounds like your oil cooler in the radiator was bypassed. Not unusual for these to fail and leak oil into the coolant. Should not be hard to locate a used filter housing at a tractor wrecker, there would be no demand for one.

Your test pressure seems set a little high. If you get a big pressure drop in reverse, it's probably in the shuttle assembly. Removing this unit is labor intensive and involves splitting the tractor. Hopefully you got a good deal on the backhoe, especially one with a gas motor. Phil

 

[clarkie]

Case 580b shuttle pump

Phil,
Thankyou very much for the reply. I've learned so much from reading your posts. You mentioned if I need to do work on shuttle splitting the tractor is necessary. Is it less work splitting the tractor than going from the top of shuttle assembly? What should pressure test reading be? Is this adjustable and how? If the filter was bypassed because it was leaking oil into coolant,would that mean the radiator is shot? I guess I really need a service manual for this tractor just so doggone expensive. Is there used service manuals available? I paid 1500.00 for tractor but has no backhoe, just front end loader. Thought it would work great around farm? Not so sure now. Just ordered packing for loader cylinder that's leaking. Engine starts right up and seems strong. Is the 201 c.i. Gas a decent engine?
Again THANK-YOU for all the time and expertise you bring to this site. I'm quite sure everyone here will be hearing from me. I have soooooo many questions and hopefully once I learn some of this I will be able to give it back.
Have a great day and thanks again
Todd

 

[Burns-Tractors]

Hello, I am also new to this site and I also can not start a new post I can only reply?. I have a 1966 Case 530CK Industrial diesel and I am also having shuttle problems. The tractor will not move at all? I bought this tractor this way and I though it would be a good project. Is the 580's similar to the 530's? do you half to pull out the pump to get the the line? and also do I half to split the tractor to get to it? This tractor has a loader so I would rather not split it.
Thanks,
Coyote

 

[Phil]

Clark,
I have never heard of any problems with the Case gas engines used in backhoes, but they are rare around here. To remove the shuttle assembly, the tractor has to be split. To access the shuttle pump, the large adapter plate(under the fuel tank), has to be removed. I usually split the tractor, then roll the front of the tractor ahead out from under the fuel tank. This allows a pump/pick-up tube inspection, and removal of the shuttle clutch assembly also. Some have done it the other way, by removing the transaxle, after removing the backhoe attachment.

I believe the clutch pressure is set 165-195 psi, at the port used for the dash gauge. Not sure as my manual is out in the shop. This pressure is adjusted by adding or removing shims at a valve located beside the selector valve.

Your radiator could be replaced or a separate cooler added. Keep in mind that you need a cooler rated the correct pressure.

The filter assembly is separate unit from the cooler. Are the steel lines from the shuttle valve assembly still there? Phil

Burns,
Welcome to the forum:drinkup
I believe you need 5 posts before you can start a thread. I am not sure of the differences between the 530 and 580 shuttle, there are some. I'm assuming you want to check your pump pick-up tube screen, then yes the large cover should be removed from the torque tube. Phil

 

[clarkie]

Case 580b shuttle

Phil,
WOW! it sounds like you've worked on at least one other 580b haha! Thanks again for all of your insite. Yes the steel lines are there however they just make a complete loop infront of the radiator. I took your advise and called around to the salvage yards yesterday. I've located
A few filter housings and bracket. I also went to pick up the packing for my
Loader cylinder yesterday and bought a external screw in replacement filter
And assembly. I am planning on mounting this next to the shuttle valve assembly this way at least my fluid will pass through a filter. In the mean time I need to figure out if my radiator is shot or if the original filter housing was damaged and just bypassed because they could not
Find a replacement filter
Housing? Any suggestions on checking the radiator? I would like to be sure
Radiator is not taking on oil before I purchase the original filter assembly.like I said in previous post the ports on bottom of
Radiator have a plug
Cap in them. Ive found one place
That will sell me the lines and filter
Assembly for
150.00 plus shipping. Does this sound about right?
Or would I be better off to install a heavy duty RV cooler instead
Of going back to original. The radiator
Seems fine just the little bit of time that I've run the tractor. I see no leaks
And it stays
Full.
Thanks
Again!
Welcome aboard Burns! This is by far the best site I've found for this kind o info!
Todd

 

[Burns-Tractors]

Thanks For the info, I will tear in to her today.
Thanks,
Coyote

 

[Phil]

Clark,
I would only consider using the original filter assembly. It's rated for the pressure used in this part of system, which may reach 500psi on occasion, at least that's what the pump relief is set at, as I recall. It's not uncommon to have the original cooler bypassed in these radiators, I would guess that some yahoo took the filter out at the same time. I bought a CK once that had no oil cooler. Probably okay for intermittent operation.

I have seen aftermarket coolers added to many CK's and B's. Phil

 

[clarkie]

Case 580b shuttle pump

Phil,
Thanks for the info, I will go ahead and order that used filter housing. Just got loader cylinder back on. Draining all if the old nasty hydraulic fluid before refilling and cycling. Then I will change shuttle fluid again. I'll keep you posted!
Thanks again
Todd

 

[ronspowertrain]

I've been reading this forum for a while. I have a lot of respect for the knowledge in Phil's head! I too have a case 580B with a shuttle problem that has been getting worse for a few years now. pressure on the trans gauge typically dropped to the red after 40 minutes use,but if driven with a light foot while loading the trans would last quite some time. I would let it cool then back in business.I tried to borrow a bore scope this week but it was broken weeks ago. The cooler lines from the valve body to the front filter and rad, scream with vibration (not normal) and I have flushed the system twice before. I was hoping to find a plugged filter hanging from the trans/converter pump causing cavitation.. Not sure if the clutch seals are worn enough to be the issue. It wont move more than 100 ft after a 15 min warm up now. typically, if it revs up and stops movement, I shut it off,wait a minute and refire it. off I go for a few more minutes. Its a 1975 Diesel model. I am a Class A tech ,driveline specialist and trans builder, but I am most familiar with cars and trucks! I've been all through the rear end of the machine but never had the torque tube apart. I have the parts manuals and I see its a very simple build other than possible case machining, no problem. Any advise or help diagnosing exactly what is causing the pressure loss would be great.Should I pull the valvebody and cover or pull the torquetube complete? thanks.

 

[Phil]

Ron,
I think if it were mine I would take the adapter plate off first. Finding no clear cause, splitting the tractor would follow, and would be a little easier with the tank removed. Buzzing problem, usually only noticed when cold for a minute or 2, might be an air leak at the shuttle pump seals, aggravated by a partially plugged pump intake screen, or the wrong oil type. The pick-up tube may be leaking air at the gasket or at the weld.

The pump should be checked at this time for debris under the relief valve, and wear in the pump itself. It's best to replace the shuttle valve gaskets when you are at that point. The adapter plate is much easier to lift off when the valve is removed. The 2 upper valve gaskets must be matched to the machine serial#, as there are early and late gaskets. Converter valve should be checked for free movement. Phil

 

[ronspowertrain]

thanks for the advice Phil. I am going through my Case original parts manual diagrams and writing down part #s for repair. A bore scope is showing up tomorrow from an engineer buddy. Want to see down that case just before i pull the tank and cover plate off! that buzzing noise and severe vibe in the cooler pipes is nasty. Reminds me of a power steering pump with air in it times 100! Can't wait to see whats going on. Regarding fluid, Case TDH is what I use. Have used another traction hydraulic fluid from an automotive supplier and wasn't sure if it was better or worse, good deal though. whats your opinion on fluid type for shuttle? thanks, Ron.