WW2 Iron

[digger242j]

Since the subject of Shermans has come up, here's an interesting article: https://wwiiafterwwii.wordpress.com/2015/05/24/idi-amins-shermans/

Actually, the whole blog is pretty fascinating. I learned about it a few weeks ago, and have been spending some of my spare time reading there. Lots of information about how WWII weapons and equipment went on to be used in the years following, including in some rare instances, even now:
https://wwiiafterwwii.wordpress.com/

 

[td25c]

Old Man was on the gun crew on an M 109 mobile howitzer in 1969 / 70 . 8 V 71 power under the hood .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M109_howitzer#/media/File:Self-propelled-howitzer-vietnam.jpg

Rig was built to lay down major pain on someone .....

He made it back to the states and got in to Agriculture & cattle big time after what he saw in service .

it's a hell of allot easier to produce & feed folks then hurl rocks at them .

 

[hillbillywrench]

RZucker, i think the narrow power band (typical of most two strokes) was the main downside to DD's in oth trucks. And the noise. Did the Euclid run automatics? Iirc, a lot of the off road trucks with dd's did. That would certainly keep that detroit wound up
Willie B, my Grandad had a surplus M52? and a couple of jeeps that he used on his ranch in New Mexico. He broke the jeeps a lot (horrible roads and heavy loads are a bad combination), but they were pretty easy to repair. The Power Wagon would handle the loads, but he had a hard time finding parts for the military version when it did break. (Apparently the military required different electrical and driveline parts than the civision version.) Of course, his ranch roads are probably Rock Crawling trails now. I guess he was ahead of his time, he just didn't know he was supposed to be having FUN driving those roads.
Shimmy1, geomat would probably have been a good idea. I've never seen it used around here though, excess rock is usually the problem we have. The lot was sure soft today! If it wasn't covered in gravel I would have been playing Tow Truck driver with a FWD tractor. It only gets like this occasionally and wouldn't be feasible to put down mat. We have plenty of tractors available to tow trucks with (gently, of course).
I don't know how the troops managed to fight ww2 in northern Europe. It got down to -12 here last week and it was a pain with modern equipment. They were tough, adaptable, and ingenious I guess. Mainly, just plain Tough.

 

[RZucker]

RZucker, i think the narrow power band (typical of most two strokes) was the main downside to DD's in oth trucks. And the noise. Did the Euclid run automatics? Iirc, a lot of the off road trucks with dd's did. That would certainly keep that detroit wound up

The "narrow powerband" statement about Detroit 2 strokes is a myth propagated by engineers using undersized engines in trucks and equipment. I've run graders with a 3-71 that should have been equipped with a 6-71. Displacement is the key to avoiding tha narrow powerband thing. I've driven lowboy trucks with 12V71's that could eat 400HP 855 Cummins engines (same displacement with a turbo) and had more torque when you let out the clutch. Yeah they drank a bit more fuel, and were noisy... but if things were specced right they did the job well.
The Euclid had a manual powershift transmission so all was up to the driver, no different from any stick shift truck. It even had jakes for steep grades.
And yes I was a Detroit guy for 40+ years.

 

[Willie B]

M52 was a predecessor to Power Wagon. It had different axles, a one speed transfer case , and was rated as a 3/4 ton. Power Wagon was a heavier frame, by 1956 the 9500 GVW version was available with double layer frame. The Power Wagon had four spider gears in the differentials, a two speed transfer case, was a bit wider in the axles, and pickup versions had a 50" x 9' bed. M52 was a very wide box, as wide as the tires. Some had troop seats along both sides.

 

[td25c]

The "narrow powerband" statement about Detroit 2 strokes is a myth propagated by engineers using undersized engines in trucks and equipment. I've run graders with a 3-71 that should have been equipped with a 6-71. Displacement is the key to avoiding tha narrow powerband thing. I've driven lowboy trucks with 12V71's that could eat 400HP 855 Cummins engines (same displacement with a turbo) and had more torque when you let out the clutch. Yeah they drank a bit more fuel, and were noisy... but if things were specced right they did the job well.
The Euclid had a manual powershift transmission so all was up to the driver, no different from any stick shift truck. It even had jakes for steep grades.
And yes I was a Detroit guy for 40+ years.

Well said RZ ..... Preach it Brother !

 

[Truck Shop]

I think Detroit's are responsible for more twisted drive lines on clutch release than any other engine.

Truck Shop

 

[hillbillywrench]

Well, it turns out that you CAN teach a hillbilly something. You just have to use little words. Haha. Thanks for the info, RZucker. Practical experience always trumps theory. I had always figured that the narrow power band thing was due to the tuning of the intake system/cylinder ports for a specific rpm, as seen in the really small two strokes. I guess it's just another Ford vs Chevy vs dodge thing.
About fifteen years ago there was a local silage truck running a 6-71. We could hear that thing for miles running down the backroads. We had worked with the kid that was driving it at the time. We had named him Hotrod because he ran whatever equipment he was on wide open, all the time. Then he dissappeared when it broke. I was working with an older gentleman one day and said "Hotrod is going to blow that old thing all to pieces pretty soon." He said "That there is a perfect match, that old detroit aint't happy unless it's flat-out against the governor and Hotrod ain't happy unless his foot is flat-out on the floor. That's the One engine that he can't tear up! I hope he stays in that truck and Off our stuff!"
I remember reading about my Grandad fighting with the ignition and electrical system on his m52. I think it was 24v and nobody local had parts. I have an op/repair manual for early fifties 2 1\2 ton 6x6. They had quite an electrical system and had extra components to suppress radio interference added to almost every subsystem.

 

[RZucker]

I think Detroit's are responsible for more twisted drive lines on clutch release than any other engine.

Truck Shop

Those 12V71's could do it with a 10x4. I never did, but may have changed the u joint alignment here or there.

 

[Willie B]

Well, it turns out that you CAN teach a hillbilly something. You just have to use little words. Haha. Thanks for the info, RZucker. Practical experience always trumps theory. I had always figured that the narrow power band thing was due to the tuning of the intake system/cylinder ports for a specific rpm, as seen in the really small two strokes. I guess it's just another Ford vs Chevy vs dodge thing.
About fifteen years ago there was a local silage truck running a 6-71. We could hear that thing for miles running down the backroads. We had worked with the kid that was driving it at the time. We had named him Hotrod because he ran whatever equipment he was on wide open, all the time. Then he dissappeared when it broke. I was working with an older gentleman one day and said "Hotrod is going to blow that old thing all to pieces pretty soon." He said "That there is a perfect match, that old detroit aint't happy unless it's flat-out against the governor and Hotrod ain't happy unless his foot is flat-out on the floor. That's the One engine that he can't tear up! I hope he stays in that truck and Off our stuff!"
I remember reading about my Grandad fighting with the ignition and electrical system on his m52. I think it was 24v and nobody local had parts. I have an op/repair manual for early fifties 2 1\2 ton 6x6. They had quite an electrical system and had extra components to suppress radio interference added to almost every subsystem.

Yeah, most all military systems of WWII and the post war years had 24 volt water proof ignition systems. I can't say how well they worked, but it couldn't be worse than the civilian non waterproof ones. I remember a 1965 Jeep CJ5 that would quit if you hit a puddle. Had to get out, often in rain, and dry the distributor with a cloth.

 

[hillbillywrench]

The fact that detroit two strokes are still out there working every day is an example of ww2 tech that lasted. Some armies went into ww2 with horse drawn artillery. By 1945 they were using jet aircraft, long range rockets, compound turbos, and accurate radar.
Willie B, I walked a lot of miles because of a vehicle like that. Damp weather was enough to kill it and we never had any luck drying it out. The first dry day it would start right up. The boss didn't seem too worried about it until he got stranded three miles down the road, in the rain.

 

[old-iron-habit]

Well, it was 8 degrees Fahrenheit here this morning. I went to the woods, gave the old Detroit in the grapple skidder a shot of ether, hit the starter button, and it started right up in 5 to 6 revolutions. It loped for 30 seconds and then settled down to a smooth idle. Never to concerned about pre-heating down to about zero. Oh, did I mention its 41 years old.

 

[td25c]

I pulled in to a jobsite last year about this time in the 1969 Grove crane ( Detroit's up & down ) to set some AC / heat units on top of a new building .

Road going up to the site was a mess with deep ruts from freezing & thawing .

Went over to the General Contractor who was on site & asked him if he could grade the road with his Cat D3 so we could crawl the Grove in to position .

He said sure , no problem . After a few minutes he came walking back with a sad face ........... Looked at me & asked .. " Ahhh , do you have any either in the cab ? "

" Sure do bro " ! ...... "Just keep that either can as we got plenty more back at the shop" . Little snort & the cat fired up .

 

[td25c]

Well, it was 8 degrees Fahrenheit here this morning. I went to the woods, gave the old Detroit in the grapple skidder a shot of ether, hit the starter button, and it started right up in 5 to 6 revolutions. It loped for 30 seconds and then settled down to a smooth idle. Never to concerned about pre-heating down to about zero. Oh, did I mention its 41 years old.

old - iron , Do you use a lighter oil in the winter time on the skidder engine ? SAE 30 oil would be pretty stiff when the ice on the lake is 3 foot thick .

 

[old-iron-habit]

old - iron , Do you use a lighter oil in the winter time on the skidder engine ? SAE 30 oil would be pretty stiff when the ice on the lake is 3 foot thick .

I use straight 30 most of the year. In cold weather I use a multi weight 10W40. Have never had any oil usage issues with multi weight in cooler weather. It works for me and for a number of other folks running the old Detroits.

 

[Willie B]

I have a few old military manuals from the 1950s. They state that no oil is ever too thin. The harm of too thin an oil is rapid consumption.
While an engine has multiple points needing lubrication, it may not get everywhere it is needed if pressure, and volume aren't adequate. Stiff oil might not make it to all the remote places, light oil will. If there is foreign matter somewhere, light oil will flush it to the filter, thick oil won't. I use 10W-30 except for very hot summer weather

 

[RZucker]

I have a few old military manuals from the 1950s. They state that no oil is ever too thin. The harm of too thin an oil is rapid consumption.
While an engine has multiple points needing lubrication, it may not get everywhere it is needed if pressure, and volume aren't adequate. Stiff oil might not make it to all the remote places, light oil will. If there is foreign matter somewhere, light oil will flush it to the filter, thick oil won't. I use 10W-30 except for very hot summer weather

Do those manuals pertain to the old 2 stroke Detroit Diesels? Those of us that really know the old critters Use 30 WT in cold weather and 40WT in hot weather. Usually Delo 100 Chevron for me.
Those engines do not like a multi weight oil, that leads to gummed up piston rings and excessive oil consumption. I had a customer that was running 15/40 in a pair of twin engine scrapers with 12V71 turbo engines that were burning 1.5-2.5 gallons of oil per engine per day. I finally convinced him to try the Delo 100 40wt... After a short period of 2 oil changes those engines were down to 2-4 quarts per day. Which is a good number for a 500HP+ Detroit.
I believe 20wt is the lowest Detroit recommended in 2 strokes and that was for extreme low temps.

 

[Willie B]

They do not address Detroit, or any two cycle. My knowledge of two cycle is limited to small gasoline engines, therefore useless. What sets two cycle diesels apart from other diesels?

 

[RZucker]

I'm not even sure where to start there. The best I can do is to suggest doing some research on the 2 stroke Detroit Diesel.
The oil issues as explained to me by several Service managers and sales reps, is that the Detroits do what's known as "molecular shearing" to multi weight oils leading to stuck compression rings and whatnot. All I really know is that those guys are right.

 

[Willie B]

I'm not even sure where to start there. The best I can do is to suggest doing some research on the 2 stroke Detroit Diesel.
The oil issues as explained to me by several Service managers and sales reps, is that the Detroits do what's known as "molecular shearing" to multi weight oils leading to stuck compression rings and whatnot. All I really know is that those guys are right.

What I know about Detroit is all about sound. Any engine that sounds like that generates gobs of power, and shreds itself quickly when something isn't right.