worlds largest pull type

[Vacherie Saint]

Deere makes a beefed up tractor especially for pull-type scraper applications. It can handle the tongue weight and rides smoothe as glass compared to a cat scraper. It has nowhere near the longevity of a cat scraper, but you can put a fair amount of hours on it, swap it out and still come out cheaper than buying a new cat.

Pull-types are bar none, the cheapest way to move dirt and work in more conditions than alot of people think. I think much of the misconceptions come when you see a pan skimming 4 inches next to a cat cutting twice as deep per pass. However, at the end of the day, when you look at the haul and the money spent, the pull pans almost always win.

That said, the K-Tec concept, to me is not going to make sense over a cat once the dollars are counted. It treads too close to that cat niche market. If your going to run pull-type scrapers, you are almost always going to be better off running smaller tandems or even triples and letting the cats do what they do.

 

[Deeretime]

K i dunno if this is gonna work er not if it doesne some one please pm me and show me how to post youtube vidios.

But you cant tell me you can run a 27 and an 8 for what these guys are doing any cheaper or more efficiently



http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5xq8jOObJY&feature=related#watch-main-area

 

[Burnout]

Ok... this is where the whole pull scraper vs. twin engine gets fuzzy. Your K-tec scraper is 130k? Whats an ADT worth? And the push cat?

Look on the RB website. Last Nov. 5 Cat 657E scrapers went for 62 500, 67 500 and 92 500 (3)......so. For 92 500 for a 657E that can load itself and whail across a jobsite.... can you buy a Ktec pan, tractor/ADT and push cat for that kinda money?

Everyone compares to new scrapers, but who needs new scrapers? Twins are flyin out of california right now, B models are on the EPA's hit list. Whats a 627/37/57B worth?

 

[OCR]

worlds largest pull type, and Deeretime's vid:

K i dunno if this is gonna work er not if it doesne some one please pm me and show me how to post youtube vidios.
http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5xq8jOObJY&feature=related#watch-main-area

I thought it was gonna work, but I got the "Internet Explorer cannot display the webpage" page...

You might have too many http//'s in there...

This might work... we'll give it a try, any way.

YouTube - K-TEC Earthmovers push loading

Hope that's the one you wanted, if not... well, you know...


OCR


PS: Maybe this was a issue for one of the Mods. to handle... hope I wasn't out'a line here. If I was... Delete!

 

[Deeretime]

I thought it was gonna work, but I got the "Internet Explorer cannot display the webpage" page...

You might have too many http//'s in there...

This might work... we'll give it a try, any way.

YouTube - K-TEC Earthmovers push loading

Hope that's the one you wanted, if not... well, you know...


OCR


PS: Maybe this was a issue for one of the Mods. to handle... hope I wasn't out'a line here. If I was... Delete!

Ahh your awesome
I thought this was kinda cool. not as productive as a 57 but i dont need 88wheels to move it either i can leagaly drive it down the road FARMER STYLE

 

[OCR]

worlds largest pull type:

i can leagaly drive it down the road FARMER STYLE

Yup...


OCR...

 

[Vacherie Saint]

K i dunno if this is gonna work er not if it doesne some one please pm me and show me how to post youtube vidios.

But you cant tell me you can run a 27 and an 8 for what these guys are doing any cheaper or more efficiently



http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5xq8jOObJY&feature=related#watch-main-area

I guess it all depends, but I think you might be assuming that this 53 yard pull pan can direct load in a number of conditions and I'm hearing it can't. A friend of mine saw it run and said it'll never sniff 50 yards. That isn't a regular ADT that's pulling it either, its a Volvo scraper tractor so its not like you can slap that thing behind any old artic truck and go. Its a specialty setup from nose to tail and it ain't cheap. I'm going to do a little more research on this one. You got me thinking.

Your video link is of their 30 yard scrapers in tandem, so its not comparing apples and apples. I would much rather those tandem 30's than the one big one -- more versatile. I don't know about pushing them with a farm tractor though. Once you have to put that pusher behing these things, it takes away a big part of the value that they provide over cats. I like the smaller ones because you can direct load them fuller and easier without a push crawler.

 

[Burnout]

That isn't a regular ADT that's pulling it either, its a Volvo scraper tractor so its not like you can slap that thing behind any old artic truck and go. Its a specialty setup from nose to tail and it ain't cheap. I'm going to do a little more research on this one. You got me thinking.

Maybe thinking its a Cat 740 not a Volvo A40?

 

[Vacherie Saint]

Maybe thinking its a Cat 740 not a Volvo A40?

You're right. The video is probably a 740. They were doing a demo up and down the west coast last year with that rig behind a Volvo t450d scraper truck. Brain fart.:Banghead

 

[Deeretime]

Maybe thinking its a Cat 740 not a Volvo A40?

And its most likely stock truck because cat only sells the 740 as a frame or with a box .

 

[hvy 1ton]

I guess it all depends, but I think you might be assuming that this 53 yard pull pan can direct load in a number of conditions and I'm hearing it can't. A friend of mine saw it run and said it'll never sniff 50 yards. That isn't a regular ADT that's pulling it either, its a Volvo scraper tractor so its not like you can slap that thing behind any old artic truck and go. Its a specialty setup from nose to tail and it ain't cheap. I'm going to do a little more research on this one. You got me thinking.

In the first video posted there is a cat 740 pulling the pan. Unless I'm missing something, there isn't any scraper over 45 cu yds that can consistently self-load. Push-pull doesn't count. The largest self-loading scrapers i know of would be the D11's with towed 51 pans. I think tractor-scraper combinations have there applications, just like the cat-scrapers, but neither will ever replace push-pull or 51's being push loaded. Trying to do so is nothing more than folly. Motor Scrapers can load faster and more densely than pullpans and travel faster and more efficiently than cats

That said, there is a place for scraper tractors and pull pans. They get used by a few smaller contractors; they can't afford to have a push-pull spread sitting so long between jobs. Hamm uses them to strip quarries and saves the push-pull spreads for road jobs.

On a side note John Deere has the Scraper Special, but Challenger 900's where designed with scraper use as a primary application. They have the some of the beefiest components around. Not really sure about CNH or anybody else.

 

[Vacherie Saint]

In the first video posted there is a cat 740 pulling the pan. Unless I'm missing something, there isn't any scraper over 45 cu yds that can consistently self-load. Push-pull doesn't count. The largest self-loading scrapers i know of would be the D11's with towed 51 pans. I think tractor-scraper combinations have there applications, just like the cat-scrapers, but neither will ever replace push-pull or 51's being push loaded. Trying to do so is nothing more than folly. Motor Scrapers can load faster and more densely than pullpans and travel faster and more efficiently than cats

That said, there is a place for scraper tractors and pull pans. They get used by a few smaller contractors; they can't afford to have a push-pull spread sitting so long between jobs. Hamm uses them to strip quarries and saves the push-pull spreads for road jobs.

On a side note John Deere has the Scraper Special, but Challenger 900's where designed with scraper use as a primary application. They have the some of the beefiest components around. Not really sure about CNH or anybody else.

Yes, its a 740. I corrected myself in the previous post. I agree with you that if it cannot consistently direct load, the rig costs almost as much as a cat, and you cant get through the rocks, is it worth running over a cat? I would argue no, but that's just my opinion. Like I said, I believe that pull scrapers should stay smaller and just run tandem or triple to get the big loads. You do everything you can with pans, and let the cats do the rest.

The Challenger has a slightly bigger top spec engine and bigger axles, but it will guzzle the fuel and the additional power does not provide a noticeable advantage. I've run em and they burn a ton more fuel per hour and have slow hydraulics. There is just no real productivity advantage for the additional cost. I guess this is why most serious pull pan guys are running the Deere.

 

[Dirtdude]

I know a contractor who is running 3 - K-Tec 1254 ADT's. He has a fleet of 627's and 631's. He says that the 1254 is consistently 30% more cost effective/productive then his 631's. He says the 1254 cycle times are the same as the 631 in hard, dry conditions. When conditions turn soft and wet, the 1254 will out cycle the 631. Says the reason is that the 1254 has more flotation. As for lack of HP, he has chipped his CAT 740's which increases the HP by 40%. The 1254 is still putting about 53,000 lbs onto the 740, so traction is not to bad. Fully loaded, he says he can reach 30 MPH. I have heard new pricing around the $750,000 for the whole unit. To switch the 740 from a scraper power unit, back to a material hauler only takes a couple of hours. So very versatile there. So thats the other side of the coin. Bottom line, this is just a new concept, which will be accepted with in a couple of years.

 

[Vacherie Saint]

I know a contractor who is running 3 - K-Tec 1254 ADT's. He has a fleet of 627's and 631's. He says that the 1254 is consistently 30% more cost effective/productive then his 631's. He says the 1254 cycle times are the same as the 631 in hard, dry conditions. When conditions turn soft and wet, the 1254 will out cycle the 631. Says the reason is that the 1254 has more flotation. As for lack of HP, he has chipped his CAT 740's which increases the HP by 40%. The 1254 is still putting about 53,000 lbs onto the 740, so traction is not to bad. Fully loaded, he says he can reach 30 MPH. I have heard new pricing around the $750,000 for the whole unit. To switch the 740 from a scraper power unit, back to a material hauler only takes a couple of hours. So very versatile there. So thats the other side of the coin. Bottom line, this is just a new concept, which will be accepted with in a couple of years.

This is really true of any pull-type concept over Cats. When the conditions are right, you can't move dirt cheaper. The problem with these K-Tec's in my opinion is that they are too big. You lose many of the advantages to pull type when you try to run one, huge scraper. For example, you will need a push Cat much of the time with that rig. Second, the converted ADT's are really not designed properly for this application and the K-tec's excessive tongue weight is murdering that truck. This machine will be parked along side the Cat's when the ground is wet while the tandem trains are still running. Lastly, you will never sniff 53 cubic yards direct loading with that K-tec so the size is a little misleading. You can get a Deere 9630 with tandem 2112E's for under $600,000 and have a much better overall system that you can actually trade for a decent value when you are done with it.

 

[Heavy Highway]

I could see the value in the Ag tractor/pull pan set up if you don't turn alot of earth moving work all the time. The off road truck rig and the monster pan....well, I guess it works for them but I don't see it.

We don't get into alot of heavy earth moving operation like the old days but like most contractors around these parts, we tend to do alot of farming and ranching on the side. Pull the tractor off the ranch and hook a buggy to it and away you go when you get that type of operation. In theory.

We have one earth moving job that's about done with that phase and threw come 615C's at it. We keep a pair of those and an old open bowl 621 around and rent all else we need when it comes up.

 

[Kman9090]

ointheadJohn Deere smooth as glass?:falldownlaugh They are the roughest thing ever to be produced to pull pans! I've ran them all quads, challengers 875 or the 975 series, the 9630 scraper special deere, and one of the view to sit on the 9630T scraper edition that is not yet released. Also spent time on 627's, 651, 631, 623, and by far the 9630 scraper special with tires is the most worthless thing out there! Down time we have 10 and there hasn't been a day yet all of them ran non stop! You say smooth, where are they smooth? Running down the highway they are rough! The hitch being tough enough all right I'll give you that but the tractor itself NO! Go through turbos more then cutting edges, transmissions and drivelines go left and right. We have even pulled one completly in half! It broke in the middle. Also bent the frame in another. They are junk!

 

[Vacherie Saint]

Deere makes the three top spec 4X4's in a scraper version; and have for the last few years. You won't put 10,000 hours on them, but even if you turn them over every few years, you still come out cheaper than a CAT. Their pans, IMO, are the best out there. They buried Reynolds over the years and let the bad economy take care of what was left. They will last forever if properly maintained.

Kman, I'm not sure if you were addressing me, or if I even said that 9630 was smooth, but if you would rather run a CAT self-propelled over an articulated tractor with a fully active seat -- be my guest. I don't know anyone who would take that deal. If you are going to scrape, it doesn't get much better than a 4x4 tractor.

 

[Swamp rat]

Kman - i dont understand your thoughts on the john deere tractors, seems like you have been on a different breed of tractor from what i grew up on. As far as a scraper tractor personally their is no better. I grew up in south Louisisana in rice feilds with deere and they are the best far durability, cost is different- but you get what you pay for. I have been running these w/deere pans and numerous others brand pans for 14 years doing lazer work and now heavy construction and wouldnt trade for anything else.
The one thing you have to consider is you need someone behind the steering that can use common sense, the type repairs or break downs you mentioned sounds 100% operator / lake of operator.
We just finished a site in N. Georgia which included little over 50,000 yards of rock and dirt mix and had no problems, now these are not made for rock jobs , but if you use a little common sense they will do more than most people think. On this job we had bets against us that i would never complete this project and when all was said and done we completed it $ 40,000 under what the closest other grader quoted, goes to show that Cat pans are not the most cost effective sometimes or maybe its because the Deere's just ran right over the Cats?????

 

[alco]

The 1254 is still putting about 53,000 lbs onto the 740, so traction is not to bad.

Second, the converted ADT's are really not designed properly for this application and the K-tec's excessive tongue weight is murdering that truck.

How do you figure that 26.5 tons on a 40 ton truck is excessive weight?

 

[Vacherie Saint]

How do you figure that 26.5 tons on a 40 ton truck is excessive weight?

Its not the ability to carry the weight over the axle that hurts the truck; that's what ADT's are designed for. What ADT's are NOT designed to do is TOW 80 tons of dead weight in addition to 26 tons at the hitch. This doesn't even take into account the massive shock loads created once that 12 foot blade enters the ground. These axles, transmissions, and frames are not designed for this application.