Wood grinding business?

[stuvecorp]

Have been looking at buying a grinder to create colored mulch, does anyone have one in their business? What type/brand do you have? What are the down falls? Thanks

 

[stuvecorp]

Anyone? Must be someone that has experience with grinders?

 

[itsgottobegreen]

Yea they are expensive, noisy, throw material up to 50 feet around itself and wear out teeth like they are free samples of deep fat fried chicken at a fat farm. LOL :drinkup And almost every other major landscape yard owns one or two.

 

[CascadeScaper]

You'd have to be producing thousands of yards to make a grinder like that feasible. And you'd have to be able to distribute it as far as someone needed it. It's a real tough business to get in to, everyone does it already, so it's not terribly lucrative. The maintenance costs alone would scare me away, they chew through teeth very fast and if you put one single rock in most it will do a very nice number on it.

 

[digger242j]

First off, I claim to know absolutely nothing about the business.

It's a real tough business to get in to, everyone does it already, so it's not terribly lucrative.

If it's tough to get into, and it's not terribly lucrative, why does everybody do it already? That's like saying, "Nobody ever goes to that resturaunt because it's always too crowded." Supply and demand is what rules our economy, and if somebody, or several somebodies are providing a supply, there must be a sufficient demand to make it a viable, if somewhat competitive, business

I only mention this because it would be a shame to see cold water thrown on stuvecorp's idea before it's been fully discussed, hopefully including input from somebody who's had some measure of success at it.

It could be that in CascadeScaper's area the market is saturated, and what he says is true, but stuvecorp might be the first kid on his block to get one, and stand to make a good buck. It's just as possible that he'll beat his brains out trying to penetrate a saturated market, and wish he'd never brought the question up.

Stuvecorp, how many other people in your area are selling in the market already, and how many customers are buying?

 

[Squizzy246B]

Het Stuv "if you build it they will come"

Do your market research...and don't make that bloody red mulch :ban

We have a sub who does our arborist work. He runs a big machine, I think its a Vermeer or something. He says the big machine doesn't work as hard as his smaller one and consequently it gives him less drama..which makes sense..and then he proceeds to feed a 60ft tree straight through in about 3 seconds :eek2

 

[CascadeScaper]

Digger, I meant more along the lines of since alot of people do it already, there's not much point getting into the biz. Sorry for the confusion. Around here, we're in a very small market, there's 3 guys within 50 miles of each other that have grinders. Say if I was to buy one, I would just be adding to the already over saturated market. It doesn't sound like 3 outfits running grinders is alot, but in a 50 mile radius we're dealing with a popluation of around 100K people, not a very large market. I agree that there is potential to make money, but like I said, you'd have to be producing thousands of yards to do it. And producing huge quantities you'll need a yard to sell from and I'm sure at least one truck to deliver because not everyone has a dump truck. I'm sure you could break it down and see how much it costs to produce a yard of mulch and then figure your operating costs on the grinder, plus factoring in your competition. If all that was done, then you could decide if you wanted to jump into the biz.

 

[Jeff D.]

He does have one potential customer near him,but would have to also do some processing and pakaging,if they were even interested in buying it.??

There's the Menards Distribution Center in Eau Claire Wisc.On occasion I've hauled the same type of landscaping wood chips into them,and directly to the stores themselves,from Piedmont SD.(almost to the Wyoming border)which had to be around 600miles away from the DC.

They chips were in 50lbs bags for distribution to the general public,so there would be alot more headache over selling it in bulk.But the DC is only about 30 miles from him,and they move alot of product through there.

The people at Menards seem easy to deal with from my experience.They'll give work to us truckers who only have one semi truck,etc.Maybe they'll be interested in the chips too,who knows???

Good Luck Stuvecorp.
(PS. no-one here must know about those grinders,but we're gonna answer all those questions you didn't ask,or need answers too,hee-hee!!)

 

[stuvecorp]

Thanks for the discussion. As for competion in our area, not too much. There is one large company about a hour away but they are a sawmill that mostly grinds their own product, the only other grinder that I have found is 10 minutes away. We bought mulch from them but had to haul back most of what we bought because of all the garbage and rotted mulch, not to mention the inconsistant size/texture of product, and the constant billing problems with them, yardage amounts and cost per yard.

The maintenance cost is a big factor that the grinder companies have been up front with me on. One area we are looking at is the collection of the waste wood. Our largest snow account has been hauling 1-2 30 yard dumpsters to the landfill every week of waste wood so we are working with some of the companies on a collection route that we are paid to pick up the wood and haul it to our yard and then grind. Another part is grinding for the townships around, they burn now but everyone complains about that so much. The company that was doing it is not around anymore (many reasons for that).
The resale of product is a concern, what good is a product that nobody needs/wants? Have been talking to many folks in the area about selling in town and we will see about that. The two problems are getting enough waste to grind and then turning around and selling it.

So far we are not going to buy all the semis but am working with subs on that and keeping it very lean, we have a 721 that sits most of the summer so that will feed the grinder.

We would only make that red stuff if someone would actuality want it. Thanks for the input, keep it coming.

 

[stuvecorp]

I don't know about work in other areas but around here there are way to many contractors chasing the same buck. For a lawn estimate we have to bid against concrete guys, carpenters, excavators, all the landscape contractors and the neighbors relative that has a Bobcat. So for the last couple of years have been looking for a service/product that would compliment the business. This does have some drawbacks so we have been very cautious about this. Have been thinking that we would be wholesale only, by the semi or quad to contractors or supply yards in the area. Retail is a can of worms I don't want to fight.

 

[digger242j]

Digger, I meant more along the lines of since alot of people do it already, there's not much point getting into the biz.

That's what I meant by the phrase "saturated market", and that's what I figured you were getting at. My point was that though that might be the case in your area, it would need to be investigated on a case by case basis, for stuvecorp, or anyone else who might be considering getting involved in the business. Obviously, (from the further discussion), that has been taken into consideration.

Again, not knowing anything about the specifics of how it's done, there is an outfit here in the Pittsburgh area that hauls in lots of dumpsters full of wood waste (which they charge for), and sells lots of dumpsters full of screened shredded topsoil. How they get from point A to point B, I don't know, but I understand it's profiable enough that they don't much care to do the tree service anymore, which was where they started.

I've heard of another outfit, north of here that uses sawmill waste to somehow create topsoil for strip mine reclaimation.

I mention those just as examples of what might be done with waste wood, beyond just making mulch.

I'm sure stuvecorp would like to hear if anyone has any good insights on the nuts and bolts aspects of the enterprise, as well as the business end.

On edit: If the market exists to simply get rid of the wood waste, have you given any thought to an "air curtain" burner? (Something else I've heard of, but don't know much about.)

 

[badranman]

I guy I know around here has a contract with the waste facility, aka dump, to haul wood chips in to cover the garbage. He has three dump trailers going everyday and they usually haul about 8 loads per day each. They are picking up the wood chips from a recylcing depot which accepts wood, trees etc.

 

[Steve Frazier]

There's a yard near me that has a number of different products too. They make mulch, compost and topsoil from woody debris. They charge on both ends of the operation, to dump the debris and then the finished product. It seems to be pretty lucrative, he's got 3 new loaders and about 10 new triaxle trucks and a few trailers.

 

[Jeff D.]

I think I'm under the wrong impression about what Stuvecorp is looking at producing.Maybe I've got mulch and chips confused?

I was thinking it was wood chips,around 1" thin square,or broken chunks of bark,that were spread under bushes/shrubs,to keep weeds from growing up through,and for decoration.Whether it's bark chips,or cedar chips,whatever,it would be a uniform color,and size,and most likely from one species of tree.

I'm getting the impression that's not what is being talked about.It sounds like shredded up junk wood.Short wood fiber strips,and could be a mix of any kind of wood.Is it to be mixed with the soil for composting,and not so much for decoration?Is it a mix of old christmas trees,brush,etc,pine needles and whatever else fell in the chipper,shreader?

I can see why that wouldn't be a real money maker.I imagine there is alot of that around.

 

[Steve Frazier]

Mulch is shredded rather than chipped. I think it is hammered with dull hammers rather than sharp knives to achieve this. The result is an irregularly shaped piece of wood, with much of the fiber loose. This gives it a better insulating value than straight chips and a more natural appearance than chips.

 

[stuvecorp]

Right now am thinking just creating the shredded mulch in colored and natrual but think if successful that compost and black dirt could be done as well. To start I want to keep things as simple and lean. Am talking with the DNR right now to see what regulations I have to comply with and think this may determine if it is possible.
I haven't heard about the air curtain burner other than an ad that was in Rock & Dirt, will have to look at that.
Again, thanks for the discussion!

 

[BRL]

As a landscaper who has gotten his hands plenty dirty in plenty of mulch & soils I'll throw in my 2 cents. I have access to probably a dozen or so places to buy mulch and or wood chips from. I would only use materials from about 4 or 5 of those places, and they are also the highest priced ones. The other places wouldn't be in business if the cheap stuff wasn't used by plenty of contractors as well, so there is a market for the junk.

This info I have learned from my curiousity & asking my suppliers about it. Here in NJ & I would guess many other states & provinces, they have very strict PIA rules & regulations these types of manufacturers have to abide by. The stuff I use is real shredded mulch made from trees. It needs to be shredded several times & needs to be aged (can't remember how long exactly, but I believe 6 months is the minimum, and 1 year is the preferred) & turned at certain intervals to keep it from rotting or catching on fire from the process of biodegrading & to aerate it (I believe the piles get moved once or twice a month at least) which adds to the manufacturing costs. The stuff is consistent, doesn't break down as quick as the cheap stuff & looks much nicer. The guys that I can get this good stuff from have facilities with many acres to handle the processing & the aging & millions of dollars worth of loaders, dozers, excavators, grinders, trucks, etc.

The stuff that I can get for in some cases a third of the cost of the stuff I use is generally made from a mix of pallets, construction debris wood & tree waste. The pallet wood especially is not good stuff to use around landscape plantings because of the lack of biodegradation characteristics vs the trees & I believe another technical reason I can't think of right now. Not to mention the inclusion of nails, garbage & other construction debris in said mulch. It is usually not consistent in quality & doesn't look as nice. It is probably shredded only once or maybe twice & probably not aged as long - which explains why it is much cheaper.

Top soil is similar to the above, only you wouldn't be using as much of the wood products in the processing.

So if you plan on manufacturing & selling a quality product plan on a heavy investment of money & time to do it right. If you want to sell the other stuff, make sure there is enough of a market in your area for getting rid of the end product to make it worth it. It seems there is plenty of room for places that can take the waste in, but you need to have a good plan to make sure you are not stuck with too much of it that can't be disposed of by you.

 

[stuvecorp]

Thanks BRL, you raised some very good points. Figured that there was more to it than just running the wood through the grinder. I have wondered about the fire potential and how to keep the product from biodegrading. One thing that is tough is very few contractors are willing to spend the correct amount for landscape products.

 

[FatAlbert]

Stuvecorp,


We have sawmill in Iowa, we store our wood waist until a portable Morbark grinder is hired to grind for us. The Morbark cost Over $500,000. However there is a company that builds a smaller grinder that can be towed behind a 1 ton pickup. It cost around $90,000. We have thought about buying one, but just can not justify the cost at this time.

Try this link: WWW.conceptproducts.com/Shred-All-5600.htm

A big key to a consistant sized product is a Baffle screen.

Our first grind was through a 3" open screen, and it was the nastiest pile of crap. It had long speers up to 12" long:nono

Now we make sure a 2" baffle screen is used:yup
It is a very nice product:thumbsup


The smaller grinder by Concept products have smaller screens yet if you want to produce animal bedding.

Also, keep the Walnut out of your mulch. It's hard on plants and death on some animals



FatAlbert

 

[atgreene]

There aren't many around here, and the same thought has crossed my mind. Contractors are always looking for a place to get rid of materials, and erosion contol mulch is in high demand.

Seems like a good racket in my area, but I'm sure the market is saturated in some areas.