Who Backdrags?

[Construct'O]

I know the type really well dieseldave. This "slinging" theory...My dad used to achieve the same looking results dragging around an old set of bedsprings with cinderblocks wired to them for weight years ago...

Yers ago they use to drag old wore out cat rails to finish the backslopes,ditch bottoms,and forslopes to get them to pass inspection on all the road work.Not only the state roadwork,but also the county jobs.

Thats back when the inspectors was really picky about how things was done.:usa

 

[AusDave]

More on backblading

That reminds me of a local guy, the best operator that ever lived (if you have any doubts, just ask him ), who swears that the only way to fine grade with a dozer is at max speed. Apparently, the idea is to sort of "sling" the dirt into place- maybe he's working off the same theory as the mach 2 grader guys? Anyway, I've never seen any of his "finished" work, but I've heard stories... I wonder if he backdrags, hafta ask the next time I run into him.

I used to work for the Soil Conservation Service in NSW, Australia first as a dozer operator and then as a foreman-operator and we used Cat D5B's with straight blade and rippers for the work we did creating contour channels and dams on agricultural land to stop or prevent erosion and water loss. Unusually for a Govt department we were told we had to compete with private enterprise contractors and do a better job in less time!

That meant full throttle all day in the highest gear that could get the job done effectively and efficiently. Of course you used the decelerator if going over rock or other rough conditions that could damage the dozer. Our contour banks generally had a fall of 1" every 100 feet and had to be even so no ponding occurred. Creating the contour banks was an artful process as we didn't want to bury all the topsoil and needed windrows of topsoil left in the process to spread over the work in the final grade.

We also only charged the farmer by the hours on the hour meter and no idling was allowed. When the operator took a break the foreman got on the machine and continued the work until the break was finished and then it was back to the operator. Needless to say the farmers were impressed and private contractors couldn't match our work rate, quality or price. It also helped that the Service took good ideas and methodology from operators all over the state and shared the knowledge actively.

I never experienced any breakdowns caused by our work practices and all machines were on a good maintenance schedule with regular oil sampling.

Now what was this subject about again, oh yeah backblading. Our crew never backbladed, though some others did. It was generally frowned upon and seen as lazy. Dozer tracks on the work were usually neat and orderly and showed the pattern of an operators work and efficiency. However if a really track free finish was required because the soil was really cloddy or similar, we just hooked up a set of pasture harrows behind the four wheel drive and ran over the job with them as fast as we could safely go. Way faster than backblading and absolutely no windrows. Sometimes a bit of grass seed might be thrown on before harrowing too.

Well that's my 2cents. Have fun, Dave

 

[dieseldave]

I know the type really well dieseldave. This "slinging" theory...My dad used to achieve the same looking results dragging around an old set of bedsprings with cinderblocks wired to them for weight years ago...

My dad (and his father too back in the day) does the same thing, only with a piece of chain link fence with old Corvair wheels on it :lmao

 

[Colorado Digger]

o k it is nice to c u gys py htnn,

 

[special tool]

o k it is nice to c u gys py htnn,

what?
Are you "texting" someone on H.E.F.?

 

[Squizzy246B]

o k it is nice to c u gys py htnn,

Colorado Digger: Welcome to the Heavy Equipment Forums.

Here's a tip, English is the language used here.

 

[LowBoy]

o k it is nice to c u gys py htnn,

Is that "texting"?:beatsme I thought Ozzie Osborne was with us.

 

[LowBoy]

My dad (and his father too back in the day) does the same thing, only with a piece of chain link fence with old Corvair wheels on it :lmao

My dad had the Cadillac of drags dieseldave. He had a 1927 McCormick-Deering F-12 narrow front end tractor (at least the tires weren't iron,) and used to pull a homemade drag built of 12" c-beam. Two 20 foot long beams with 4 8 foot wide channels contacting the ground, and bolted together so it would fold up as he turned around in tight quarters. That thing worked slick, as we lived on a 1 mile long dirt road with several neighbors, but no one but dad ever did a lick of work on that road the 40 years he was living there. That was definitely the grader, maintainer, and finisher.

He then fabricated a "blade" on the front, with a 4' X 8' sheet of 3/8" boilerplate. 2 outside lift arms, and a chainfall mounted out front on a sort of snowplow frame. A 1" galvanized pipe all the way from the chainfall out front, to the driver's seat, and a few 90 degree threaded elbows to form a crank handle. Turn the crank 15-20 times...blade down. 15-20 more the opposite way...blade up. Good if you're by the hour, not on a bid job.

 

[Tracklayer]

I just read skimmed though most of this very interesting thread, and I have a couple of thoughts. Pardon me if I am duplicating what has been said. I understand the points about track bunching slack between the sprocket and rear rollers when backing up under load, whether back dragging or backing up hill. It seems to me that the fundamental difference between running forward and reverse is that when loading in reverse, the recoil mechanism is between the sprocket and the track/ground engagement, so the loading is able to pull and bunch slack by compressing the recoil. Whereas, when loading forward, the recoil mechanism is not involved in the loading.

There was some discussion about the high track pulling the track around two idlers. In connection with that, I note that on a high track, each link joint folds, unfolds, and folds again, all under load, with each revolution of track when the tractor pushes. Whereas with an oval track pushing, each link just folds once under load with each track revolution.

I don’t see anything wrong with back dragging to make the work look nice if you are in the final phase of finish grading, and want the work to look nice. However, I do know that novices are often quickly attracted to the seemingly easy payoff of back dragging, and can get in the habit of doing it every time they back up. But for finish grading, whether with a dozer or track loader, back dragging seems as important as toweling when finishing cement. Not only does back dragging smooth the surface and even out compaction, but it also pulverizes chunks.

But I am inclined to not use float for back dragging. I put the blade or bucket on the ground in the hold position, and make small adjustments up and pressure-down while backing up to actually grade to the extent possible with micro cuts and fills. With the final passes, I just let it back drag in hold with no adjustment.

With a track loader, I finish grade with the bucket flat and about 2/3 full of dirt. The weight seems to balance the tractor and stabilize it for micro cuts and fills going both backwards and forwards. The dirt in the bucket also prevents it from gouging going forward, and allows the bucket to cut, transport, and spill like a dozer blade does. In other words, the dirt being graded is out ahead of the pile in the bucket. The pile stays in the bucket as the grading proceeds.

 

[Scrub Puller]

Yair...off topic but trackfanatic raises some ancient woes and troubles. Anything I absolutely detest and refuse to wear is grovelling around in the dirt under a scraper-bowl or dozer blade with a gas-axe because some slack arse fitter installed over length cutting edge bolts!!!

Cutting edge bolts are NOT an expendable item. The correct length in the real world is one thread inside the nut. If they are long and protude, shim the nuts out with flat washers, run on an extra nut, or burn them off flush with the nut with a ten inch grinder.

With Never Sieze applied at installation even worn nuts will spin off easy with a flank drive socket. I weld premade lifting handles onto the segments to make them easier to handle and approach and edge roll or change like a tyre change on a race car.

With a spare set of bolts all greased up and ready we used to get 627's back into the cut in under fifteen minutes.

 

[trapperbo]

I back blade any time I need a smooth finish, doing the final on a flat or finishing off a road. Grouser marks just don't go over well with some people in the final finish :beatsme haha

I do it all the time, and don't know what i'd do without it!!

 

[GGDOZERINC]

I yell at my operators if they dont back drag. I want the blade down as much in reverse as I do in forward. The little extra wear on the machine isnt enough to me to not have the jobs looking nice all the time. This business is competive and the jobs looking nice is a must. If fact I talk trash about other dirt contractors that dont leave thier jobs slick. Just my 2 cents though.

 

[Wolf]

Makes sense to back drag. Why not?

 

[cowdogteamroper]

I back drags all the time. I run sevral thousand acers of cattle and when i run my dozer feild to feild i backdrags to grade the road as i go and level of manure piles, etc. Plus saves lots of time and cost of fuel and runnin other equipments.

 

[ih100]

Best finish I ever managed was on a reinstated borrow pit, some 13 acres. I cut two holes in the edge of a forty-foot sheet pile and towed it round with a D6H and two-leg chains.

On back-blading, I like to see a good finish with parallel track marks, but most jobs I worked on the inspectors didn't, so back of the blade it was. If the underlying finish is level, all you're doing is knocking off the grouser marks. I'd never back-blade to "achieve" level, only to polish it. And I use the float. If the underlying finish is cut to level, the blade won't dig in or bounce.

 

[d4c24a]

Best finish I ever managed was on a reinstated borrow pit, some 13 acres. I cut two holes in the edge of a forty-foot sheet pile and towed it round with a D6H and two-leg chains.

i have an old lorry chassis that does the same job

 

[Neil D]

overloaded D4

Hey Graham, I'm surprized the D4 would tow that and you at the same time:beatsme-bet theres some black smoke!!!!!

Neil (returning the favour)

 

[mike 360*]

i dont drive the dozer much on our firm, as im an excavator driver, but when i do my foreman and boss insist on backblading everything, they like to see no trace of machines ever being on site, and want every job real tidy, so im always smoothing out my excavator tracks aswell! here is a landscaped bund back bladed with our d6m lgp done a couple of weeks ago...

 

[LDK]

i dont drive the dozer much on our firm, as im an excavator driver, but when i do my foreman and boss insist on backblading everything, they like to see no trace of machines ever being on site, and want every job real tidy, so im always smoothing out my excavator tracks aswell! here is a landscaped bund back bladed with our d6m lgp done a couple of weeks ago...

A drag pulled by the dozer or a tractor will give the same finish (or a better one) on landscaping work, it's faster and theirs a lot less wear on the running gear of the dozer.

 

[vintex]

back blading

hi guys ,i always drop in here for a quick look ,get some pretty interesting threads ,boy did this one hit a nerv, i think times hav changed a lot since the old days i dont think it was the blade wear that the old timers were worried about more the fact that a lot of the old cable blade machines didnt hav the big heavy trunnion caps on the draft arms like the moder era dozers hav, most only had a verticle bolt or a wedge this could easily be pulled of buy back blading causing lots of down time and probaly the odd beatting !!
i was allways told it was "bad" but in the modern mine saftey culture i all ways back blade a short strip where i park the dozer this makes for safer pre starts and you can allso see any leaks under the tractor,allso if we change out dump ropes or do bucket repairs i back blade a area around the bucket ,you can buy a lot of cutting edge bolts for the price of a broken ankle! the only thing that peeves me is when you see blokes chasing rills with a big dozer if they were paying for the dozer they would want the blade full all the time , get it level then hit it with a grader.