What about GPS?

[Rockbreaker]

Hey all.

Here in Norway all the major machine owners use gps on bigger jobs.
Sometimes on pipelines and industry sites too.

My question is how common this is where you guys work?

 

[John C.]

I don't know much about the stuff but it is showing up with most of the big contractors in our area.

It seems there is a certain minimum size of area that the stuff is economical to work in.

 

[pushcat]

I don't think that GPS equipped excavators will ever really catch on. If all you have is cab display and not setup for machine control, what's the point? For a lot less money and better accuracy you're better off with a laser system.

Now GPS dozers, that's a different story. Much easier machine to utilize the GPS for machine control. Also better suited for the optimum use of GPS, which is moving and placing bulk material as efficiently as possible. It will get you within .05' easy enough. If you need it closer than that you need a man on the ground checking grade with a stick anyway.

We were the first ones with GPS in our area 5 or 6 years ago. I thought it would really catch on but so far we are still the only ones with it.

 

[Rockbreaker]

Excavator gps

Hey pushcat.

Must say i disagree with you on the matter of gps in excavators.
Using gps on a pipeline you can see profiles of the trenc,you can put in changes in direction,and add some dept if you put gravel under the pipes.
You know where to dig and how far down it is.

Digging for a parking area you know corners and how deep you have to go.
System tells you where the bucket is and the distance to top surface.

I Think gps is working great on excavators too.
Makes the work go smooth :my2c

 

[Construct'O]

Is those pictures the same machine or two different systems.They look different.Just wondering ??????

If different which one do you like the best.:usa

 

[dirtdigger]

Here in Michigan there are several drainage contractors switching over to full GPS grade control and surveying and doing away with lasers. I should be getting my new system in a couple weeks. Should speed up layout and installation time dramatically.

As far as use on excavators, I think that will be available around here soon. I could see a lot of potential in that too if installing pipe or cleaning/digging ditches.

 

[Construct'O]

I do the drainage thing also,but usually more then enough slope here where i work ,just use laser for the bottom ground.Plus to old for the expense of GPS,maybe some day if i last that long.

Post some pictures of your machine with the GPS on it sometime.You using a plow to install your systems?

I would like to see more drainage trenchers and drainage plow pictures on here.Need to start a new thread with them i guess:beatsme:usa

 

[Rockbreaker]

Two systems

Is those pictures the same machine or two different systems.They look different.Just wondering ??????

If different which one do you like the best.:usa

I,m not 100% about the first one but i do belive that is Catepillars accugrade system. Only used that in a dozer (D8T) and that seemed okay to me.
But i know some of the users of Accugrade have complained about the operating system beeing to complicated to understand.
Accugrade is a new system so it will be better by time i think.

Second picture is of an English system called Prolec.
Very good system and easy to operate with i think.
Had a volvo ec 180 with that system on it and it worked great.
Support on it was a non team and that was:Banghead:Banghead

Most sold system in Norway is made in Denmark by Scanlaser.
Best support and if you have a problem you get the help you need:exactly

 

[IowaCat08]

I don't think that GPS equipped excavators will ever really catch on. If all you have is cab display and not setup for machine control, what's the point? For a lot less money and better accuracy you're better off with a laser system.

Now GPS dozers, that's a different story. Much easier machine to utilize the GPS for machine control. Also better suited for the optimum use of GPS, which is moving and placing bulk material as efficiently as possible. It will get you within .05' easy enough. If you need it closer than that you need a man on the ground checking grade with a stick anyway.

We were the first ones with GPS in our area 5 or 6 years ago. I thought it would really catch on but so far we are still the only ones with it.

I have to disagree with you pushcat, we switched 2 of our excavators to trimble GPS 6 months ago. The guess work and rework has been eliminated completely, so the units have already payed for themselves. We have an excavator and dozer on site with GPS which eliminates all surveying.

 

[RKO]

GPS System

I've had GPS Systems on my Dozers, Scrapers and Box Scrapers for several years. I love having the GPS system on the machines, They paid for them selves in one year, if not the first job. Last year I put a GPS systems on my excavators. I was worried at first, but It is the best thing I have done. They make the work so much easier, faster, and more accurate. You can do the same job with less help and time waiting for some one to lay it out. Most better contractors have gone to GPS systems, GPS Systems have absolute Lasers. Anyone that is doing any major contract jobs can not afford to be with out a GPS System. I think in a couple years you will be forced to have a GPS System because a lot of surveying companies are going that way, They do not have to go out and stake a job and restake a job when the stakes get lost. That is another good thing about GPS System, you don't have to worry about some one knocking over a grade stake, or the laser or transit getting run over. Also when you are done you have a record of what was done on the job.

 

[dirtdigger]

I do the drainage thing also,but usually more then enough slope here where i work ,just use laser for the bottom ground.Plus to old for the expense of GPS,maybe some day if i last that long.

Post some pictures of your machine with the GPS on it sometime.You using a plow to install your systems?

I would like to see more drainage trenchers and drainage plow pictures on here.Need to start a new thread with them i guess:beatsme:usa

As soon as I get my new plow and GPS I'd be glad to post it here. I agree, us drainage contractors are a limited number. I'm a member of the Michigan Land Improvement Contractors of America and most of our members are drainage contractors.

I used to use a Fiat-Allis HD 21 with a Link 250 plow, till I blew the motor. Now I am using a Bron 450 Plow, until my new Bron comes in.

I have been using sub-meter WAAS GPS to map all of my tile/drainage systems since 1998. If you are now doing that, you should at least try it. Saves tons of time, and impresses the customer. Not to mention, it's easier to locate in the future.

 

[greywynd]

As soon as I get my new plow and GPS I'd be glad to post it here. I agree, us drainage contractors are a limited number. I'm a member of the Michigan Land Improvement Contractors of America and most of our members are drainage contractors.

I used to use a Fiat-Allis HD 21 with a Link 250 plow, till I blew the motor. Now I am using a Bron 450 Plow, until my new Bron comes in.

I have been using sub-meter WAAS GPS to map all of my tile/drainage systems since 1998. If you are now doing that, you should at least try it. Saves tons of time, and impresses the customer. Not to mention, it's easier to locate in the future.

Dirtdigger, welcome!! I'd missed your first posts, but saw this one. GPS definitely seems the way to go for tiling applications!

 

[Joe Lall]

GPS vs Laser

I realize you guys are strickly talking about GPS units, but what do you think of the use of lasers for residential and light commercial excavating. I am toying with the idea of putting a magnetic receiver on the dipper stick of our excavator. In particular, does it actually save time..

Thanks

 

[AllMtnConst.]

Anybody have any links to GPS suppliers for excavators?

 

[Construct'O]

As soon as I get my new plow and GPS I'd be glad to post it here. I agree, us drainage contractors are a limited number. I'm a member of the Michigan Land Improvement Contractors of America and most of our members are drainage contractors.

I used to use a Fiat-Allis HD 21 with a Link 250 plow, till I blew the motor. Now I am using a Bron 450 Plow, until my new Bron comes in.

I have been using sub-meter WAAS GPS to map all of my tile/drainage systems since 1998. If you are now doing that, you should at least try it. Saves tons of time, and impresses the customer. Not to mention, it's easier to locate in the future.

I don't think a lot of the dirt contractors realize how up todate the drainage contractor are with GPS systems and lasers systems.They have been years ahead of the dirt movers.

When the tubing(field tile) goes in the ground ,it,s there you can't go back and change it like when your working with dirt.

The cost of the tubing you have to take it in the shorts if put in wrong.By the way i do dirt work beside ,so see both sides.Good luck with you new machine.

Different country here,so things are done different.Drainage here is more of the sidehill seep type stuff.Not much pattern tiling here yet,just a few bottom ground.

Plus i'm 60,so not going into the expense of GPS at my age,can get by with the laser for the short time i will be trenching.:usa

 

[Rockbreaker]

I realize you guys are strickly talking about GPS units, but what do you think of the use of lasers for residential and light commercial excavating. I am toying with the idea of putting a magnetic receiver on the dipper stick of our excavator. In particular, does it actually save time..

Thanks

It will save you time and money i think.
An easy system with screen in the cab where you can use laser or just use a mark you have on the ground to level the surface from will in Norway cost you about 6-7000 dollars.
This is well invested money and is easy to use.

Using laser you must put in the distance you will go from the level the laser is standing on(the laser beam that is)
And then you can start digging,but everytime you move the excavator you
must register the laser beam on the system again and then you are ready.
Very easy to understand and operate i think.
And you can use the system whitout laser: if you got a point where you can put the bucket and set it to level from that point.
The system will then tell you how many centimeters(Feet?) your bucket is above or underneath that point you starte from.

Prolec,Topcon and Micro digger are good systems,but i dont know dealers over in your country.

Hope this explained some for you.
At last a picture of the reciver for laser mounted on a volvo excavator.
And the screen in the cab(Notice the numbers on the screen and the position of the bucket from the line who is where it sould be.)

 

[RKO]

Anybody have any links to GPS suppliers for excavators?

This is the link to Trimble's Web page

http://www.trimble.com/index.aspx

The second link is McAninch Construction Web Page.
When I set my GPS system up on my excavator Trimble took me to see McAninch Construction GPS systems.

http://www.mcaninchcorp.com/default.asp

I have had GPS system on machines for several years and for the type of construction work I do would not be with out it. My First GPS system on the dozer was replaced last year because it was obsolete. So be careful when you buy that you are buying the latest system, and from a dealer that has is good with GPS systems.

 

[Big Iron]

I've had GPS Systems on my Dozers, Scrapers and Box Scrapers for several years. I love having the GPS system on the machines, They paid for them selves in one year, if not the first job. Last year I put a GPS systems on my excavators. I was worried at first, but It is the best thing I have done. They make the work so much easier, faster, and more accurate. You can do the same job with less help and time waiting for some one to lay it out. Most better contractors have gone to GPS systems, GPS Systems have absolute Lasers. Anyone that is doing any major contract jobs can not afford to be with out a GPS System. I think in a couple years you will be forced to have a GPS System because a lot of surveying companies are going that way, They do not have to go out and stake a job and restake a job when the stakes get lost. That is another good thing about GPS System, you don't have to worry about some one knocking over a grade stake, or the laser or transit getting run over. Also when you are done you have a record of what was done on the job.

I am very interested in the GPS system for a long reach (50') excavator. I am doing a job on the Willamette river in Oregon and phase 2 requires us to remove 30,000 cy of material that is underwater! They want it to be to grade and I hope I can find a GPS system whose senors are water proof. Any info you could give me would be greatly appreciated

 

[JDOFMEMI]

Our first GPS experience was about 6 years ago. Bought one system (indicate only) and set it up to use on a blade or dozer. Took about a year to figure out how to best utilize it. By that time, it was obsolete. Then we wanted to automate it on the dozer (figured out it made the most $$ for us there). To do this, the 1 year old system was obsolete, so we bought a new system, fully automatic for a D-6R. We got really god with it, doing with two machines and no groung man what used to take 4 machines and a ground man, and production still nearly doubled. Next we added a D-8T with Cat Accugrade, which is Trimble, same as our others, and production went up even more. Year and a half ago added a fully automatic system to our grader to replace the original indicate only system. On that job, 180 acres to sheet grade with 0.05' tollerance, we used the D-8 to rough in and the blade to finish, and got up to 10 acres per day. Now the oldest indicate only system is on the compactor in the fill, so things do not get overbuilt too much. I would not like to go back to the old way. No stakes to run over, plans follow you on screen in the machine.
Sure, sometimes you loose satelite reception, but even if this averaged out to 1 hour per day, you still get double or more production than without. If the signal goes out, go grade a haul road or something till the signal comes back. Just don't finish anything, or you will probably have to do it over when the signal comes back.
The key to making it work is a good 3D model. Find someone to build the models who has field experience, then he understands how it actually needs built.
I am looking forward to a job that will justify an excavator system. Thats the next step forward for us. Mass excavation is easier if the excavator digs right to grade, never undercuts a slope, never leaves too much for the finish crew either.
It is getting hard to compete without the production you can bid with a GPS system. Its a steep learning curve, but worthwhile in the end.

 

[dirtdigger]

For you excavator guys, locally there are a few guys using the Ocala system. The really like it. You can use a magnetic mount laser indicator with it to reset grade. (otherwise, each time you move you have to reset on grade again)

I know they are working on GPS control for excavators, but don't know much about it.

http://www.ocalainstruments.com/