Wages/area

[wrc]

I've posted a couple times on the qualify help thread, I am honestly starting to wonder if the problem is me instead of the employee. I was wondering if you all wouldn't mind sharing what you think is a decent starting wage for an employee in the north east kansas region. I know there are many factors that change the price, however I like to hire the green guys that are not super expensive yet. I am looking for a laborer that will be allowed to gain limited seat time. Due to the fact I am a super small company and can not afford huge wages I look at my self mostly as a stepping stone of knowledge. If someone with little to no experiance wanted a small company to start out with learn the trade and learn how to operate before moving on to a large place with lots of money. I take great pride in my work and strive to have one of the safest work places available. I expect my crew to do the same and to some degree I treat my crew as family. However I can not seem to get applicants. I've had adds out for about 2 months. Had 2 people scheduled for interviews. The first no called no showes for an interview. The second I extended a job offer to at his asking price. He never showed up for work and has not called since. I'm honestly not sure if it's me at this point or the potential employees. My last guy was with me for 7 years, my current guy has been here for about 11 months but I need more. Can any one here help me out? Also what would you expect to pay someone?

 

[Vetech63]

If you want less migraines, spend the money needed for experienced help.

 

[wrc]

If you want less migraines, spend the money needed for experienced help.

I'm all for less migrants and more USA stuff. I do my best to buy all American made products. With that said I've got no problem with the ones that come here legally AND adopt our ways of living. Nothing pisses me off worse than someone in America not speaking English! I'm not talking slave wages. I pay these green guys 10 to 15/ hour. But a true experience person would bring 2x that and I just simply cannot afford it. I could pay them wages if insurance and taxes were cheaper but there not so I'm maxed out around that 15 mark.

 

[Vetech63]

I'm all for less migrants and more USA stuff. I do my best to buy all American made products. With that said I've got no problem with the ones that come here legally AND adopt our ways of living. Nothing pisses me off worse than someone in America not speaking English! I'm not talking slave wages. I pay these green guys 10 to 15/ hour. But a true experience person would bring 2x that and I just simply cannot afford it. I could pay them wages if insurance and taxes were cheaper but there not so I'm maxed out around that 15 mark.

You wont get very good experienced help at $15. My question is...…..are you in situations that a lower pay wage guy is taking a lot longer to do a job that a better paid man can do in half the time? Usually the experienced people are worth the wage. If your $15 an hour guy is getting it done to your satisfaction then that would be the way to go. Its sounds as though getting those guys to work is going to continue to be a challenge.

 

[AzIron]

I am in simalar circumstances except I dont need a laborer I need an operator so I have gone through 2 guys this year and am on my 3rd but he will stick with it he wants to learn the trade. I started him at 16 told him the day he can get his cdl I will pay him 18. This guy is only 24 he is so green he can't hit dirt when he throws a shovel at the ground. After 3 months he has gotten decent on a mini ex and can do basic stuff with a backhoe. You cannot hire an operator in my area unless you hit the 30 plus mark for wage and then you gotta worry about someone taking them.

If I had a guy capable of operating at the level that he was turn key on anything I have I would happily pay 27 to 30 beyond that the market wont carry it ther is no money left for the business

 

[crane operator]

I'm not that far away from you wrc. I'm southwest missouri. My mechanic/ rigger/ laborer help (not true diesel mechanic, just mechanic inclined) I'm paying 16-20. If I need a extra guy or two for a day, I have some guys I can call and pay them 20/hr (part time help). Operator I'm paying 20-25.

A lot of the hourly operators (excavator/backhoe) by me are around 15-18-20, and the same for dump truck/ concrete truck drivers. And they get quite a bit of turnover.

I know Kansas City - especially union, is much higher than I am, but cost of living is much lower by me.

The thing is, at 10-14/ hour, that's barely above mcdonalds or walmart, and that's airconditioned in the summer, warm in the winter, usually a 6-maybe at the most a 8 hr. shift. And they can spend half of that time messing around on their phone. A lot of them would rather do that than 12 hours out in the sun with a shovel in their hand.

 

[Shimmy1]

A lot of them would rather do that than 12 hours out in the sun with a shovel in their hand.

This is Part A of the problem, workers with no ambition.

I would happily pay 27 to 30, but beyond that the market wont carry it ther is no money left for the business

This is the second part of the problem, there has to be money left for me. I don't know about other places, but we sure as hell can't afford to pay a man $80k per year for a construction season that is 7 months long at most.

In response to wrc's original question, around "here", you are not going to get a trainable operator for less than $20/hour, much less somebody experienced. There are too many farmers looking for a warm body to fill the seat in a $300k tractor with autosteer that are paying $20.

 

[BigWrench55]

I have been following this thread and I respect the views from the employers side of things but take issue with it as well. If you want a good operator then pay for one. If you want a good mechanic then pay for one. You get what you pay for. Don’t whine about the poor help you are getting when you are paying poor wages. If you can’t afford to pay the top dollar for skilled workers then someone up top is taking to much pay. Employers often forget that their success is from the blood sweat and time away from families their skilled workers are sacrificing for them. When work slows down the top dollar skilled guys are let go. Then it’s more often than not that one guy ends up doing the work of several. Then the work picks up and instead of hiring good qualified help. Low wage and incompetent people are hired. Thus running off your best hand and then creating high turnover and low morale. Then with all that comes the excuse of we can’t pay good wages because we hired a bunch of incompetent people and it cost us money. Good and competent skilled workers have a job already and if you want them to work for you then you got to sweeten the pot. Don’t offer lame wages and all the overtime one can stand with the same 401k and other benefits one usually can expect anywhere. And then expect to find a great and irreplaceable employee. I will say it again you get what you pay for.

 

[AzIron]

This is Part A of the problem, workers with no ambition.


This is the second part of the problem, there has to be money left for me. I don't know about other places, but we sure as hell can't afford to pay a man $80k per year for a construction season that is 7 months long at most.

In response to wrc's original question, around "here", you are not going to get a trainable operator for less than $20/hour, much less somebody experienced. There are too many farmers looking for a warm body to fill the seat in a $300k tractor with autosteer that are paying $20.

Shimmy I completely understand your point we work year round here so it's somewhat of foreign concept to shut down for 3 or 4 months

I only know of about 4 guys worth 30 bucks an hour one is my old man and the other three all are owner operators most of the top guys are only good at 1 thing or the other but they are not universal as in plumbing or footings or basements or elevator pits and hillside.

 

[AzIron]

I have been following this thread and I respect the views from the employers side of things but take issue with it as well. If you want a good operator then pay for one. If you want a good mechanic then pay for one. You get what you pay for. Don’t whine about the poor help you are getting when you are paying poor wages. If you can’t afford to pay the top dollar for skilled workers then someone up top is taking to much pay. Employers often forget that their success is from the blood sweat and time away from families their skilled workers are sacrificing for them. When work slows down the top dollar skilled guys are let go. Then it’s more often than not that one guy ends up doing the work of several. Then the work picks up and instead of hiring good qualified help. Low wage and incompetent people are hired. Thus running off your best hand and then creating high turnover and low morale. Then with all that comes the excuse of we can’t pay good wages because we hired a bunch of incompetent people and it cost us money. Good and competent skilled workers have a job already and if you want them to work for you then you got to sweeten the pot. Don’t offer lame wages and all the overtime one can stand with the same 401k and other benefits one usually can expect anywhere. And then expect to find a great and irreplaceable employee. I will say it again you get what you pay for.

I understand what your saying but it is not quite as simple as pay more I know a lot of guys that would pay more for help but I truly can't find any help that is turn key and capable to not need babysat all shift those guys are few and far between

I always hate the guys that stand there and be like well your not paying enough for my talent when your paying top of market it's like if you only new what it cost employ you they dont understand that to pay someone 30 bucks an hour it cost the company close to 50 with taxes and payroll overhead dont get me started on workmanship comp.

Simple fact is if I charge a hundred an hour for a backhoe witch is all you can get here and I pay a guy 30 an hour it will cost no less than 45 an hour and operation cost of a new backhoe per hour is close to 35 an hour after accounting so that leaves the business 20 bucks an hour to pay the support overhead of transport trucks a yard or shop and all the little things and hopefully if nothing goes terribly wrong that machine made a profit today.

It's easy to be the employee and go well you get what you pay for but you have no clue what the business is paying for and believe me I have been the employee and thought the same thing

Sorry to rant and yes your right there are incredibly tight ass jokes to work for that wont pay those guys have not chimed in on this thread yet

 

[BigWrench55]

I understand what your saying but it is not quite as simple as pay more I know a lot of guys that would pay more for help but I truly can't find any help that is turn key and capable to not need babysat all shift those guys are few and far between

I always hate the guys that stand there and be like well your not paying enough for my talent when your paying top of market it's like if you only new what it cost employ you they dont understand that to pay someone 30 bucks an hour it cost the company close to 50 with taxes and payroll overhead dont get me started on workmanship comp.

Simple fact is if I charge a hundred an hour for a backhoe witch is all you can get here and I pay a guy 30 an hour it will cost no less than 45 an hour and operation cost of a new backhoe per hour is close to 35 an hour after accounting so that leaves the business 20 bucks an hour to pay the support overhead of transport trucks a yard or shop and all the little things and hopefully if nothing goes terribly wrong that machine made a profit today.

It's easy to be the employee and go well you get what you pay for but you have no clue what the business is paying for and believe me I have been the employee and thought the same thing

Sorry to rant and yes your right there are incredibly tight ass jokes to work for that wont pay those guys have not chimed in on this thread yet

I understand that there is more to it than meets the eye and unfortunately people are arrogant about their skills and only think they should be doing what they were hired to do. I can’t honestly say that I haven’t been guilty of the same thing. But usually when I work for someone I ride for the brand. I will do most anything for the success of the company. Because their success is my success. I don’t like it when I see someone with a chip on their shoulder saying.. well if they want me to do that then they will need to pay me more. I look at it like we are a team and we can’t win if one of the teammates is playing for himself. But on the other side of that coin is when you get a can do employee then you should do what it takes to keep him on your team. Because a guy like that is invaluable and rare. Especially in this day in age. That is why I say pay for the talent and offer more than any other company will offer. It’s not always more money that makes an employee happy. Understanding that this person has a life outside of the company. And respecting the fact that personal life and work life collide from time to time will go a lot farther than benefits. Because the simple fact is that we are only working because we have a family to support and bills to pay. In my world family first then work. Because with my skill set I can find a job easily. But my skill set can’t keep my marriage together and family happy no matter how much or hard I work for someone. Jesus said it best. No one can serve two masters. For either he will hate one and love the other , or he will be loyal to one and despise the other.

 

[thepumpguysc]

Why not contact some heavy equip TRADE SCHOOLS.??
I know when I went to diesel college NADA{TN} they had a very good job assistance program..
Just walk in the office & tell.m what part of the country u want to work in & they pulled out an "index card" file..{I know, I know, old} & u got the name, address & ph.# of the business.. & it was up to u to contact them BUT they gave u the info..
That school was in TN & I wanted SC & they had a BUNCH & I got a lot of offers, but ended-up in Atlanta GA.
Ya see what I'm getting at.?? U get'm FRESH..AND usually before the "dope man" gets'm..
Offer to help w/ moving expenses & I think u might just tap into a good well.?? young & dumb & eager to please, for not a lot of money..
MY 1st job was 5.00 when Min.W was 3.25.. & I moved MYSELF from SC to GA & thought I struck GOLD..
AT LEAST call'm & get your name on their books/system.. it doenst cost anything AND THEY MIGHT just give YOU a lead on a recent graduate.??
I hope things work out for ya..

 

[MarshallPowerGen]

A lot of it depends on the region, what others are offering for the same (or easier) work, and how quickly you're willing to acknowledge and reward improvements in performance. If the wages quickly jump in your area with a little experience added on the resume, you're going to need to move some money around to stay competitive or quickly fall behind. If you consider your own business as only a stepping stone and not a company to grow with, it can't be that shocking that they move along. What drove away your 7 year guy?

It's easy to be the employee and go well you get what you pay for but you have no clue what the business is paying for and believe me I have been the employee and thought the same thing

Entry level people at entry level wages usually aren't looking at the long term, more at what they are offered now to make rent. An employer talking about how hard it is to run a business and overhead cost just creates negativity from someone starting at the bottom looking up at the boss man that has more than they do. Not going to get a lot of "big picture" thinkers at $15/hr nowadays.

 

[catwelder]

since my season has ended until February I can hire someone whos decent to run a machine for 18-24 an hour and labor 10-12 that's the rates for my area though that is the base rates for most places large and small unless you can run a grader and a crane then it jumps

 

[Muffler Bearing]

I gotta say, the migraines/migrants mix up was pretty funny

 

[John C.]

I've been on both sides as an employee and an employer. The truth of the argument is that if you can't afford to hire decent help and still make money, then you are either in the wrong business or are doing something wrong to begin with.

 

[catwelder]

I gotta say, the migraines/migrants mix up was pretty funny

I dint wanna be the person to say anything

 

[rondig]

Well you are either working to cheap......or taking too much off the top...because you should be able to pay the guys the going rate for your area. That is what equipment rates and job bids are based on....i go with a good hourly wage and a month end bonus for safety, and timely finishing of jobs. It is better to pay a little more and have happy loyal person...than skimp out...the difference is usually only 1 dollar an hour....also good equipment helps too

 

[wrc]

A lot of it depends on the region, what others are offering for the same (or easier) work, and how quickly you're willing to acknowledge and reward improvements in performance. If the wages quickly jump in your area with a little experience added on the resume, you're going to need to move some money around to stay competitive or quickly fall behind. If you consider your own business as only a stepping stone and not a company to grow with, it can't be that shocking that they move along. What drove away your 7 year guy?


Entry level people at entry level wages usually aren't looking at the long term, more at what they are offered now to make rent. An employer talking about how hard it is to run a business and overhead cost just creates negativity from someone starting at the bottom looking up at the boss man that has more than they do. Not going to get a lot of "big picture" thinkers at $15/hr nowadays.

I wouldn't exactly call it driving away my 7 year guy. It was more of a retirement thing. He no longer holds a full time but still comes back 1 or 2 days a month mostly as a truck driver/parts runner. He reached a point in his life where he could no longer physically take the demands of doing manual labor. I offered him a crew of his own to supervise and I would have added a second crew to my company, my only stipulation was he had to learn how to operate a hoe. Well after about 18 months of trying he never got it and I lost faith he would ever figure it out and we collectively decided retirement was best.

 

[wrc]

Well you are either working to cheap......or taking too much off the top...because you should be able to pay the guys the going rate for your area. That is what equipment rates and job bids are based on....i go with a good hourly wage and a month end bonus for safety, and timely finishing of jobs. It is better to pay a little more and have happy loyal person...than skimp out...the difference is usually only 1 dollar an hour....also good equipment helps too

For equipment I've got newer equipment, all 3 machines have cans and heaters. 2 of the 3 have a/c. I do let them have a pick up to drive they are reliable and in good shape but I wouldn't expect to win a prize at the car show. But I do 95% of the equipment operating. Really I'm looking for laborers, most laborers like the fact that they get 1 or 2 hours a day of seat time. I only consider my company a stepping stone because the max I can pay is about 15 to 17 by the time you get tax and insurance added on. I like to start guys around 12 which is what I consider a fair wage. Show up on time for the first 30 days I'll give you 12.50. Learn to work with out being babysat and have me able to trust you you go to 13.50 or 14. Get a cdl and have me trust you 15. With that said my previous job paid me $15. I had a cdl, knew how to operate, light mechanical abilities, showed up when asked and answered call outs after hours. I honestly felt I was worth more as an employee but never could get it. Now I understand why I couldn't get no more. Told the boss I was quitting and going out on my own to compete (gave 3 months notice) and looking back I've got a different prospective now. I'm thrilled to be on my own and after this many years I'm sure I'll make it, I just wish there was more decent help out there that wanted a job. The part that really has me baffled is the guy I offered a job to at his asking price not ever showing up or even calling back.