1. Thank you for visiting HeavyEquipmentForums.com! Our objective is to provide industry professionals a place to gather to exchange questions, answers and ideas. We welcome you to register using the "Register" icon at the top of the page. We'd appreciate any help you can offer in spreading the word of our new site. The more members that join, the bigger resource for all to enjoy. Thank you!

Wabco scrapers at work

Discussion in 'Scrapers' started by stepp3360, Jan 6, 2008.

  1. DMiller

    DMiller Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2010
    Messages:
    3,698
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Hermann, Missouri
    Will work on getting the photo, may not even be WABCO but sure looks the part.
     
  2. DMiller

    DMiller Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2010
    Messages:
    3,698
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Hermann, Missouri
    Well NOT Wabco. by what I can figure is a Clark Michigan, but has been repowered and does NOT function anymore.

    IMG_3443.JPG
     
  3. RZucker

    RZucker Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2013
    Messages:
    1,736
    Occupation:
    Mechanic/welder
    Location:
    Wherever I end up
    Clark-Michigan 290M tractor with a LeT -Westinghouse 18 yard scraper. The army had several versions of mix and match tractors and scrapers for this application. Cat made one tractor, MRS made another, I think Euclid made another scraper option too. The version in your pic seemed to be the most popular combination. I used to work on several of them, IIRC the Cummins engine was rated at 375HP and they were good loading machines, the weak point I remember was the fiber discs coupling the convertor to the engine. Dumb idea, but it's common Twin-Disc co. idea.
     
    Buckethead likes this.
  4. old-iron-habit

    old-iron-habit Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2012
    Messages:
    3,204
    Occupation:
    Retired Cons't. Supt./Hospitals
    Location:
    Moose Lake, MN
    This method has just about eliminated the dewatering of sites like the days of old. Off road trucks taking muck out and bringing good fill back. It is all you see around here any more.
     
  5. Skwerl

    Skwerl New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2018
    Messages:
    3
    Location:
    Utah
    So I have a job coming up, currently weighing the ideas of subbing it out, or there is a set of 222Gs near me for dirt cheap. (2 running 1 parts machine). My dad is a retired heavy equipment mechanic (one of those guys who bleeds Cat yellow) he says I can't keep these things running, but I have read over and over they are a fairly dependable machine. I need to move 100k yards. Any thoughts...
     
  6. DMiller

    DMiller Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2010
    Messages:
    3,698
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Hermann, Missouri
    They will be maintenance heavy and parts availability an issue, you could end up with one working two for parts until that fails a common already used piece and then you have three yard ornaments. Subbing may end up quicker, more economic financially and time wise.
     
  7. Skwerl

    Skwerl New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2018
    Messages:
    3
    Location:
    Utah
    Subbing may end up quicker, more economic financially and time wise.[/QUOTE]

    Yes, from the word go we will be on a time crunch. If, "IF", we can keep these going, they would more than pay for themselves. That is why I came to this forum to find out peoples experiences are with Wabco. I can buy all 3 for less than I can buy a comparable Cat. My dad's experience with Wabco scrapers goes back to a company he worked for that still had one of the old electric steer models, but he has a point in the fact that you can't get parts for the off brands. He owns Cat 966 out of the
    50s that I can still buy parts directly from Cat. 15 years ago or so I worked for a small company. The guy owned 2 International TD20 dozers they worked hard all day, every day he also had 2 parts machines. Those dozers worked for him for about 8 years before he gave up and bought a D9H to replace them. I understand what it is to rob parts and scab things just make these things work. Maybe you are right about it being more economical to sub this out, but I keep going back to the thought that it is only 100,000 yards. It is one job not trying to keep them forever. I don't mean to argue, it is just that I am leaning towards buying them. I know it is a gamble, but if it works, they would more than pay for themselves.

    Also, what are the common fail parts on the 222G? Anyone have experience with this? What do I need to watch for when inspecting these?
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2018
  8. mowingman

    mowingman Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2010
    Messages:
    337
    Location:
    north Texas
    Another good option might be to just rent a couple of scrapers by the week or the month, until you are done with them. I like short term rental units, as the rental company takes care of all the repairs and I can concentrate on getting the job done, not be out chasing parts
     
    Skwerl and DMiller like this.
  9. RZucker

    RZucker Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2013
    Messages:
    1,736
    Occupation:
    Mechanic/welder
    Location:
    Wherever I end up
    Yes, from the word go we will be on a time crunch. If, "IF", we can keep these going, they would more than pay for themselves. That is why I came to this forum to find out peoples experiences are with Wabco. I can buy all 3 for less than I can buy a comparable Cat. My dad's experience with Wabco scrapers goes back to a company he worked for that still had one of the old electric steer models, but he has a point in the fact that you can't get parts for the off brands. He owns Cat 966 out of the
    50s that I can still buy parts directly from Cat. 15 years ago or so I worked for a small company. The guy owned 2 International TD20 dozers they worked hard all day, every day he also had 2 parts machines. Those dozers worked for him for about 8 years before he gave up and bought a D9H to replace them. I understand what it is to rob parts and scab things just make these things work. Maybe you are right about it being more economical to sub this out, but I keep going back to the thought that it is only 100,000 yards. It is one job not trying to keep them forever. I don't mean to argue, it is just that I am leaning towards buying them. I know it is a gamble, but if it works, they would more than pay for themselves.

    Also, what are the common fail parts on the 222G? Anyone have experience with this? What do I need to watch for when inspecting these?[/QUOTE]
    IF, and that's a big IF... If those machines have been lovingly maintained and the parts machine isn't a stripped skeleton, depending on the price I might do it. Do some research on parts availability first. I've been out of the Wabco world for so long I'm not sure where to look anymore.
    I've seen many an older Wabco go hundreds of hours with only minor issues. And hopefully the owner can give you a fully set of manuals to go with the machines. Not having a lot of experience with 222G's I really cant tell you what to look for, run the elevators and listen to motors and gearboxes, check to make sure they steer well, slop in the linkage can create issues. If at all possible try to run them in at least 4th gear and listen for odd noises, they whine a bit normally but shouldn't pop or shudder. Make sure the bottom of the final drive case isn't leaking oil around the bull gear bowls, that's a pain to fix.
    Best of luck on this quest, The G models had plenty of power and could move pretty fast.
     
    Skwerl likes this.
  10. terex herder

    terex herder Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2017
    Messages:
    66
    Location:
    Kansas
    I've got quite a few hours in a 111A, none in any of the larger units. I'd be sure to check the electrics for the chain drive. How much can you slow the engine before the contactors chatter or drop out?

    If you buy the Wabcos and they don't work out, will you still have enough money to rent other equipment or hire out the job? Or is this a Hail Mary?
     
    Skwerl and DMiller like this.
  11. Skwerl

    Skwerl New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2018
    Messages:
    3
    Location:
    Utah
    Not a complete Hail Mary, this is our own project. The money folks have approved me for more than enough to hire this out.... The less I borrow, the less I pay back. I can buy these Wabcos for less than 2 months rent. Figured I'd sell them when the job is complete. Or let them sit, but we don't very often have need of a scraper. Our other equipment will be on site as well. If we got desperate I could move a lot of dirt with bellydumps, dumptrucks, loaded with excavators and loaders. This is only a Hail Mary in the sense that if they would run for me they would make me a lot of money in one shot. But, if they don't run, big deal, I'm not out that much anyway.
     
  12. Showpony

    Showpony Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2009
    Messages:
    190
    Location:
    Canterbury New Zealand
    Yes, from the word go we will be on a time crunch. If, "IF", we can keep these going, they would more than pay for themselves. That is why I came to this forum to find out peoples experiences are with Wabco. I can buy all 3 for less than I can buy a comparable Cat. My dad's experience with Wabco scrapers goes back to a company he worked for that still had one of the old electric steer models, but he has a point in the fact that you can't get parts for the off brands. He owns Cat 966 out of the
    50s that I can still buy parts directly from Cat. 15 years ago or so I worked for a small company. The guy owned 2 International TD20 dozers they worked hard all day, every day he also had 2 parts machines. Those dozers worked for him for about 8 years before he gave up and bought a D9H to replace them. I understand what it is to rob parts and scab things just make these things work. Maybe you are right about it being more economical to sub this out, but I keep going back to the thought that it is only 100,000 yards. It is one job not trying to keep them forever. I don't mean to argue, it is just that I am leaning towards buying them. I know it is a gamble, but if it works, they would more than pay for themselves.

    Also, what are the common fail parts on the 222G? Anyone have experience with this? What do I need to watch for when inspecting these?[/QUOTE]

    From our experience 222gs Achilles heals are, transmissions, every 6- 8000 hours replace the large double race roller bearing that supports the torque converter. Do not be tempted to up the engine hp,. N70s are where you should be. Never power hop, change direction without halting, or steer row the machine when stuck. The differential pinon will fail if abused. Never forward water with a 222g equipped with cowl intake air cleaners, If your 222 does not have a snorkel air cleaner housing with a good precleaner, change it. 29.5 x 29 tires seem to have issues with broken drive axles from time to time but i have never heard of this occurring with 29.5 x 25. If oil is leaking from the elevator motor gear box fix it immediately, leaks are usually a precursor to bearing failure. Never operate them with the engine covers off or loose. If you ever remove a front wheel use a torque multiplier to re tighten the lugs to 1350 ft/lb. Watch when turning off banks, they will bury their nose and bugger the radiator. Make sure you get a set of manuals and the set of special splined service sockets and spanners. Don't sweat the final drive crack/ leak issue too much, they are a big job to fix, but I have never seen the cracks travel beyond the factory welds, if you can live with the crack so will the machine. Do not let the cutting edge wear so it is above the spreader bar when it is down otherwise a lot of damage to the ejector mechanism and rams will result. When operating, always start the elevator before material gets to it, never run the elevator without material under it, always shut the elevator off before you raise the bowl, never cut or try to load around corners. Dont be frightened by the electrics, they are simple and very reliable, attention should be paid to the contactors to ensure they are clean and aligned, and all the associated connections are tight. Always run good batteries. If you have trouble talk to AC people (electrical engineers), the DC (auto electricians) guys are not trained to understand the system. Parking brake, if it still has one ensure it works correctly and the operator uses it correctly, otherwise remove or disable it, more than a few of these machines have gone up in smoke because they where operated with the park brake engaged, when you see the location of the park brake drum you will appreciate the importance of this warning.. Otherwise they are great piece of machinery.
    On the plus side they would be the most productive 22 yard single engine elevating scraper made. They ride well, and are comparatively quite, Cab ergonomics where 50 years ahead of their time. The letournea limited slip differential gets them thru going where others falter. There are very few castings in a wabco, even in the event of a catastrophic mechanical misadventure things can be stuck back together. Thanks to the internet there is better parts back up now than there was in 1980. There are no dealers so you never pay dealer prices.
     
  13. RZucker

    RZucker Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2013
    Messages:
    1,736
    Occupation:
    Mechanic/welder
    Location:
    Wherever I end up
    Word I got was #14 brought $7K locally and #12 brought $6K online. I know the buyer of #14 and immediately got a phone call with questions. Here I go again.:D
     
  14. DMiller

    DMiller Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2010
    Messages:
    3,698
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Hermann, Missouri
    Went on a Scooter ride to Greely CO this last week, visiting a Brother of mine. Saw a REAL Wabco at Hays KS on a construction site recently opened. Sitting nosed to the highway easement and definitely a Wabco. 1670 miles in four travel days on the HD Saddle.