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Vertical Upwelds

RobVG

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They look damn good when you see one- but I've never seen one done and can't do a decent one myself. Saw a youtube video but it didn't help much either.

Any tips for a vertical upweld?
 

willie59

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They look damn good when you see one- but I've never seen one done and can't do a decent one myself. Saw a youtube video but it didn't help much either.

Any tips for a vertical upweld?

Man I used to, when I was an ironworker. Darn can't see good enough nowdays to weld like I used to...drives me nuts!

Stick or MIG?

Stick; 7018 1/8". Going from top down gives better appearance welds, but the process isn't accepted as preferred structural strength. Going from bottom up is preferred structural method. Tip? Don't use exessive heat (amperage). Use only enough amps to obtain penetration and burn rod. Amps too high just makes a mess.
 

RobVG

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Stick or MIG?
I'd like to do both but you can see great Mig welds in dump truck and trailer boxes. Downwelds aren't too difficult but like you said, upwelds are supposed to be more structural.
 

willie59

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Heck, I wish I could see good enough to make a good flat weld like I used to, not just a vertical. :Banghead
 

992G

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Been going to a welding class and working on Vertical Up welds. So far from what I have been taught, Low Amp's and need to move quick so the weld does not pool up. Practice Practice Practice and you finally get it.
 

RobVG

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Yeah, I get the low amps and I've seen diagrams but maybe it really is "practice practice practice"...
 

willie59

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Brother, all methods of welding are all about practice. You can study the methods, burn them in your memory. But it takes your eyes and hand to work the operation. Seeing the puddle, seeing what's slag and what's molten metal while your burning. Practice practice practice. ;)
 

roddyo

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It's a lot easier with a DC welder running a 7018 rod.

I went to vo tech at night when I was 13. Not for the teaching, unlimited rods and steel for under $30.00 at the time.:) That's when I got good at uphill. 3 hours a night, two night's a week. If you practice that much at anything you will get good at it.

For anyone wanting to learn to weld government or state tech schools is a good deal. At least in my area.
 
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trukfan

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The trickiest part of vertical up welding, be it MIG or stick, is getting the edges of the weld to "wet" properly on the sides. To little, and the weld will end up being humped in the middle, and it won't be strong b/c it lacks fusion on the sides. Too much, and you get undercut, which traps slag (with stick or flux-core welds) and is a weak spot. With a subsequent "hot pass" after your first, you may be able to completely nullify the effects undercut will have on the weld, but not always. Sometimes you need to grind it. What I have a tendency to do if I have welded V-up in awhile is not point weld far enough to the left and right as I weave, and not hold the weld to the sides long enough to prevent undercut. This only leads to me not whipping the weld back across the middle fast enough, causnig it to hump, or in the worst case, drip.:Banghead As was said before, proper amps, wirefeed for MIG, and electrode size for stick. Another key is being able to build and hold your "shelf" as you progress up the part. Your shelf helps keep the weld where it needs to be, and without that, you ain't gonna have any luck. Bear in mind, the larger diameter the elcetrode, the harder it is to weld verticle up b/c of the heat needed to make it weld properly. If you can't do it with 1/8" rod, try 3/32". When I had to take my cert. tests in school, all of the stick was verticle up, 1/8" dia. rod. 5//32" is doable if the plate is heavy enough, but I've never tried larger for verticle up. Hope I helped some.
 

992G

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Yeah, I get the low amps and I've seen diagrams but maybe it really is "practice practice practice"...

I take it you know how to do basic flat welding? What might be a thing to try is have someone who is good at vertical welding run a pass, and watch through your helmet what they are doing. Then try one yourself, and have that person watch you. They should be able to guide you while you are running the pass. After that it's back to practice.
 

willie59

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What I have a tendency to do if I have welded V-up in awhile is not point weld far enough to the left and right as I weave, and not hold the weld to the sides long enough to prevent undercut.

Yep, that's the way I did it trukfan. Weave to the left, hold a moment, weave across the middle to the right, hold a moment, repeat process. And 1/8" 7018 DC reverse was my choice. Bigger than 1/8" required turning up the heat, not as easy to control. And, as an ironworker, you had to learn to lay down good welds the first go around. You don't have a grinder in your bolt bag when your hanging by a safety belt welding a connection. But when working on something on the ground I might grind the root pass just to set up a clean bead for the weave pass. I loved welding. Just can't do it worth a flip anymore. ;)
 

RobVG

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I take it you know how to do basic flat welding?

Well I certainly hope so, I've been pretending to do it for 20 years.

have someone who is good at vertical welding run a pass,...

One of the kids at work said he could show me since he used to be a production welder. We set up a piece for him to demonstrate on but no one was impressed.

trukfan-
Hope I helped some.

You did. A lightbulb flickered on in my head a couple of times while reading your post.
 

RobVG

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ATCO

I might grind the root pass just to set up a clean bead for the weave pass

I'm glad I'm not the only one who grinds a weld they're not happy with:thumbsup
 

Speedpup

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Brother, all methods of welding are all about practice. You can study the methods, burn them in your memory. But it takes your eyes and hand to work the operation. Seeing the puddle, seeing what's slag and what's molten metal while your burning. Practice practice practice. ;)

What puddle? :mad::beatsme:( Same boat here :eek: Went to weld few weeks ago and I couldn't see the work. I haven't welded much or at all in a few years. I was never the best but I did make fuel tanks and truck bodies for my own company. Now :beatsme:pointhead It is really depressing to know you can't do it. :Banghead:throwup:thumbdown
 

willie59

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Speedpup, it's obvious you share the same pain I do. Welding is done by the hand that holds the stinger. But without the "eyes" to see...the hand can do nothing. I have no regrets of my age, except, I wish I could still "see" to weld. :Banghead
 

OCR

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Vertical Upwelds:

Every body seems to be under about the same opinion here... vertical-up is hard to do, and I agree.

Of the three, so called, out of position welds... vertical-up, horizontal, and overhead... up is the hardest for me, so I usually weld down... even though it's not proper, and you can't pass a test with that procedure.

One technique that can help, a little, sometimes... is to hold your rod at a slight angle... pointed up.

I hated v-up back in school, but I passed all the coupons... that's back when you put a strip of the plate you welded in a jig concern, and bent it into a U-shape... if no cracks or pin holes showed up, it was considered a good weld.

Surprisingly, horizontal and overhead didn't seem as hard for me... a lot of guys had hell with overhead... I do have a nice scar, from some slag that rolled under my watch band, doing overhead... lol

I don't know how the test is done now... and I wouldn't pass any way... not without a lot of practice, maybe not then either... same problem... vision!!

ATCO... or anybody, have you tried the magnifying lenses?


OCR


PS: I'm talking all 7018 here... DC... reverse polarity.
 
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RobVG

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One of our older drivers helps me in the shop when things are slow. I got him some magnifiying cutting goggles and he loves them.
 

stock

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We have moved on and now were lost....
When I was a whippersnapper an old hand at welding old me the only difference between a good welder and a bad one is the bad one is afraid to use the grinder,grind clan grind the root weld grind the ugly weld,he was of the opinion that before you put on a cap weld you should lightly grind the filler to remove any oxidation ,he was the only man I ever knew who could weld a pipe using a mirror.Mig,gas, tig or stick they were all the same to him.
I myself have an inverter tig compatible welder and would trade it for land, very lite and a pleasure to use ,on vertical runs a twist of a knob adjusts the amps ,very sensative.
Don't do that much welding now but try and avail of any opportunities on the farm when they arise.Here are the specs:-

160 Amp inverter / Tig t_ARC160.jpg


This inverter will weld up to 160 amps and use up to 3.2mm electrodes
Input Power 240 volt (single phase) + or – 10%
Fuse Rating 16 Amps
Generator Required 5.3 KVA
Output Power 20 – 160 Amps
Duty Cycle 155 Amps 60%
Weight 8 KG
Dimensions 371 x 155 x 295mm
Electrode Size 1.6 – 3.2mm
 
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