Versalift Bucket Extend Issue

[hmorris142]

Hi,

I have a 2008 F350 with a Versalift TEL-29-N bucket on it.

It's currently having an issue with extension operation getting stuck on. When I toggle to extend from both the upper and lower controls it will start extending and won't stop when I release the toggle. I need to toggle retract to make it stop extending or it will keep going until it's fully extended and keeps the valve open until I toggle retract. Sometimes it will even keep extending when I toggle retract and I can't do anything but let it fully extend, then it lets me retract once it's fully extended. Retraction never gets stuck on when coming back in. It's only when extending.

Above is what always happens. On rare occasions (it seems to be when its extra cold outside) extension won't work at all. It just won't work for say 5,10 plus minutes until it randomly will start working. When this happens it also usually won't let me retract once it finally lets me extend. It'll take a few minutes before it will randomly let me retract. What typically fixes it when this happens is I sit there and raise or rotate and try to then extend/retract at the same time, sometimes this will get the extension/retracting going. So when i simultaneously use two operations

All other bucket controls raise, lower, rotation, bucket leveling work perfectly and have never been gotten stuck or had issues.

Thank you to anyone who has read this and anyone that can offer assistance

 

[Vetech63]

Its an electric over hydraulic system so you need to determine if it is an electric or hydraulic problem. Since it does it from both controls I think I would check the centering springs on the control valve for that function first

 

[hmorris142]

What should I check for when looking at the control valve?

 

[Vetech63]

It depends on the type of control valve. Some pics of it would help

 

[hmorris142]

got it, ill take some tomorrow in the light and report back.

I've seen it behind the cover before, 99% sure it's this one : https://spwindustrial.com/versalift...lve-bucket-boom-aerial-truck/?setCurrencyId=3

 

[willie59]

It's been many years since I've worked on Versalift booms so my memory is very vague, but yes, the control valves on those units are bang valves, not proportional. It sounds like you have a problem with the telescope valve section of the main control valve, just need to determine if it's an electrical input fault or a fault with the valve itself. What I would do if possible, see if you can access the control valve stack and identify the telescope section. Operate the telescope out, and if it sticks in telescope out, pull the wires loose from the two coils of the telescope valve section. If it stops, you have an electrical input problem, if it continues to telescope you have a problem with the valve section for telescope.

 

[hmorris142]

Thank you for the input. I have access to the main control valve, pictures attached. All sections are labeled, extend and retract are at the far right side.

When you say pull the two wires loose, are you talking about the dual red wire that is going into the sections? Do you think they just pull out?

So i should try using controls to extend, while it continuously extends i go and pull the two red wires out of the extend valve section to see if it stops?

Out of curiosity do you know what the twist nuts on top of the valve sections do?

Lastly - the oil reservoir has been at the min line and theres this biodegrade-able envirologic fluid in my truck. I can't seem to find this fluid anywhere for sale. Does anyone know what product may be compatible with this fluid? I would like to get it back up to the max line. I purchased this truck 2 years ago, put maybe 100-120 hours on it. I am unsure of the age of the oil when I purchased it, should I just replace all the fluid?

 

[hmorris142]

and if you can believe it, I was using it yesterday at my property, have not used it in the field since I've been having the control issues... But yesterday while using it the master cylinder that lifts and lowers the arm started a leak which looks like at the seal. When using the raise function I can visually see the cylinder go drip...... drip ..... and it lands in the plastic catch then drips onto the roof of the truck cab.

Should I first try some leak fix in the oil or remove the cylinder and get it rebuilt?

 

[hmorris142]

The two red wires going into each valve section is not removable. The wires are like molded into it.

I traced the wires on the extend valve and they terminate where I circled in yellow.

Also attached a photo of raise cylinder drip leak.

 

[hmorris142]

This is from the manual. Sounds like each section on the control valve is not replaceable? If it's not electric problem might have to replace entire control value unit?

 

[hmorris142]

Ok I figured more out. The knobs on the top of the control valve functions are actually push buttons to manually control the function... I didn't realize this since they were all firm. Used some wd40 and got them moving nicely. All of the buttons return to neutral after pushing them in except for the extend one. It gets stuck and I need to firmly press the retract button to release switch function then when I release retract it successfully returns to neutral. The retract works fine. Its seems to be solely the extend valve causing the problems.

Here are a two videos I took of it.
Not running:

While running:

 

[hmorris142]

cant find the part number. I'll give Versalift a call tomorrow to see if I need to replace the entire control valve or not. It's probably pretty pricey. Good news is they still manufacturer this same lift

 

[willie59]

I forgot the valve were mounted behind a cover on the side of the turret, super easy to get to. Yes, the red knobs on the valves are to manually control boom functions, such as if there's a loss of electrical power to the unit, you can use those buttons to stow the boom. And yes, the wires are molded into the coils, but you can disconnect the current to the valve at the terminal strip where you have it circled. You're going to have to rebuild that boom hoist cylinder, it's going to get worse and seal saver additives aren't going to make it any better. I can't recall if those valves are serviceable, most solenoid 4 way valves are, but I can't recall on those. You can remove the black plastic nut that retains the coil and slip the coil off of the actuator spool. Then you remove the actuator spool to access the valve spool. Keep in mind if you attempt this, there's typically a spring and sometimes washers when you remove the actuator spool, don't drop or lose those pieces. And I'm not familiar with that oil, and it could be related to your valve problem. Again, I don't know that oil, but I used to work on machines that used UCON polyalkylene glycol fluid, that stuff was awful on solenoid valves, would make the actuator spools get stuck, you'd have to take the valve spools apart, clean everything good and polish with emery cloth and it'd be all good again. Maybe that fluid is doing something similar. But I would source that fluid, if you use anything else and it's not compatible with that fluid you could create a monster.

 

[hmorris142]

Thank you for the information! I will definitely get it rebuilt then and not even try additives.

On the control valve, I removed the black nut, slipped the coil off, do you know how I remove the actuator spool? Does it unscrew or something?

 

[hmorris142]

The actuator spool does unscrew, I got that removed. There was no springs or washers. This actuator spool doesn't seem to be the issue, nothing is seized on it. Is the valve spool the next part under the actuator? If so thats the part getting stuck when pressed.

Any idea how to remove the valve spool?

 

[willie59]

Yes, that's the valve spool inside the valve body. You have to remove both top and bottom actuator spools, then see if the valve spool will slip our either end. If not, it's likely you have a piece of debris jamming the valve spool, I've seen that many times, and it's not always easy removing such debris. Sometimes you can remove the fitting where the function hoses are attached to the valve body, clean/rinse everything good with chlorinated brake cleaner (if it's available in your area, and sometimes I've been able to remove a piece of debris with a small telescoping magnet.

 

[hmorris142]

Called Versalift for replacement part prices. I can replace the single valve on the control unit, price is $900 with a 6 month lead time.. Yikes

The entire control valve is $3,600 with a 3 week lead time. My control valve has the self leveling and additional option so it's the most expensive one.

I have not been out to try and remove the valve spool. It's been freezing outside past few days. I am going to attempt that and see if I can get my existing one operational, if not I'll probably just go with the full new control valve.

I am going remove the boom cylinder myself and get it rebuilt. I was quoted 900-1200 depending on if it needs to be machined. That sounds reasonable right?

 

[Vetech63]

You could just switch the extend/retract cartridges and coils and see if the problem moves to the retract side. At this point I wouldn't be buying parts yet.
I suspect the extend cartridge housing may be bowed a bit and hanging up

 

[hmorris142]

I removed both actuator spools and was able to tap the valve spool out. It definitely had some resistance coming out. Everything appears very clean.

I removed the actuator spools on another function and the valve spool is way smoother, doesn't get stuck like this other one.

I used a scotch brite prite pad on the actuator spool for about 30 seconds, cleaned it with the chlorinated brake cleaner from NAPA, and it slid back in beautifully just like the good side. Put it all back together and it works amazing!! Didn't have one issue the entire time testing for 15-20 minutes.

I can't believe that's all I needed to do.

Now the bad news lol.. When I was removing the rotation actuator spool to test the valve spool resistance I brought the actuator spools inside to take them apart and see if there was an issue with the extension one. I ended up losing one of the hexagon rods inside the actuator spool, mustve been when I carried it inside as they slip right out. I've looked for over an hour and will continue, it's gotta be somewhere Im looking more tomorrow. Doesn't look like Veralift sells a replacement. Maybe I can have a machine shop make one? This is the same hexagon 3mm diameter, I could get this and just cut it to length maybe? https://www.amazon.com/uxcell-150mm-Stainless-Steel-Model/dp/B07255JPKN

I put it all back together and kept the rod out of the rotation valve and just didnt use rotation while testing.

So happy it's fixed though! and didn't have to spend $3600 on a new control valve.. Thank you both so much for all the help and information. I love learning how to troubleshoot and service my own equipment. Really appreciate the guidance.

I also found a seller online for the same hydraulic oil I have, ordered a 5 gallon container of it and a new filter. Now just need to rebuild the cylinder and should be good to go for a while!

 

[hmorris142]

Had a stainless allen wrench that was exactly 3mm hex. Cut it to length, just installed in the actuator spool and it works great! So that's all set now too.