Trimble or Topcon?

[t_dirt]

so another good reason to choose trimble but maybe this vrs solution is only in demark??



I sold a VRS equipped Topcon MC2 dozer system and an X63 Excavator System last year. I believe Topcon had the VRS Network option before Trimble did! :usa

 

[grunk36]

so another good reason to choose trimble but maybe this vrs solution is only in demark??



I sold a VRS equipped Topcon MC2 dozer system and an X63 Excavator System last year. I believe Topcon had the VRS Network option before Trimble did! :usa

topcon in denmark do not have that yet i think trimble is the only one but not for long i now they usually gets the new solutions at the same time

 

[Isotope]

I have been working with Topcon 3D MC since 2005. We have it on 3 graders and two D6R dozers. I was fairly pleased with Topcon until last year we picked up a county road project and decided it was time to give Trimble a shot.

As far as road grading is concerned, Trimble out performs Topcon hands down. The software alone is where Trimble has the advantage. I've been painstakingly building 3D alignments with 3D Office for our Topcon systems over the past few years. After being introduced to Terramodel and Site Vision Office I have seen the light. I am able to build highly accurate road models in a fraction of the time and I can also build ONE model for an entire project and never have to worry about different layer depths. Trimble allows the operator to perform a "layered" lift or offset, where only the road prism is affected, the ditches, slopes, and catches remain the same, allowing the operator to grade the entire width of the project, no matter what layer of material they are working as opposed to Topcon's limited vertical offset.

As far as radios are concerned, the 900mhz Trimble setup does lack for distance, but can be easily compensated for with repeaters (which are needed with the 450mhz range PDL radios we use with our Topcon setups anyways).

Site work I see as being fairly equal. The advantage still going to Trimble with their dual antenna setup. Taking out the factors of having a cross-slope sensor, rotation sensor, and mainfall sensor is obvious. The fewer components you need, the less likely the system will fail.

I like Topcon's 3D MC^2, but it only increases the speed of dozer work, most of our fine grading is done with graders. We done some fine grading with dozers, but it's all site work and we have the mmGPS system that seems to work just fine.

 

[grunk36]

I have been working with Topcon 3D MC since 2005. We have it on 3 graders and two D6R dozers. I was fairly pleased with Topcon until last year we picked up a county road project and decided it was time to give Trimble a shot.

As far as road grading is concerned, Trimble out performs Topcon hands down. The software alone is where Trimble has the advantage. I've been painstakingly building 3D alignments with 3D Office for our Topcon systems over the past few years. After being introduced to Terramodel and Site Vision Office I have seen the light. I am able to build highly accurate road models in a fraction of the time and I can also build ONE model for an entire project and never have to worry about different layer depths. Trimble allows the operator to perform a "layered" lift or offset, where only the road prism is affected, the ditches, slopes, and catches remain the same, allowing the operator to grade the entire width of the project, no matter what layer of material they are working as opposed to Topcon's limited vertical offset.

As far as radios are concerned, the 900mhz Trimble setup does lack for distance, but can be easily compensated for with repeaters (which are needed with the 450mhz range PDL radios we use with our Topcon setups anyways).

Site work I see as being fairly equal. The advantage still going to Trimble with their dual antenna setup. Taking out the factors of having a cross-slope sensor, rotation sensor, and mainfall sensor is obvious. The fewer components you need, the less likely the system will fail.

I like Topcon's 3D MC^2, but it only increases the speed of dozer work, most of our fine grading is done with graders. We done some fine grading with dozers, but it's all site work and we have the mmGPS system that seems to work just fine.

that is excactly what i think about trimble too but i just dont have aby experience with topcon only what i hear from others
by the way i have just been on a trimble seminar and with the new TBC(trimble business center) which by the way is free for download on the internet you can do the same
making templates ditches slopes and so on if only you have the centerline
they told us thet TBC is the replacement for sitevision so you will get a more advanced program but it will only work with machune control with software from version 11.0 and forward ..
about the radios here in denmark i have been using a 450 mhz radio and i have been working up to 7 km away from it with no problems at all

 

[Kman9090]

I have operated both trimble and Topcon systems but never have gotten the chance with the Mc2 yet. The trimble is far superior in my oponion over the topcon older version. We have one dozer out here that has the Mc-2 but haven't gotten a chance to get on it. If you have to cut grade on a blade though and be within a 100th of an inch Topcon's millimeter system is pretty amazi ng. Have done over 8 miles of highway with it so far and only one spot so far where it was 2inches to high. it's pretty amazing accuraacy.

 

[DataMan]

I used to work for a machine control dealer and now I create the data used for all machine control equipment.

There isn't much difference in the two major systems (Trimble & Topcon) and I'm guessing the others. The biggest difference is the service with your dealer. How well equiped is their warehouse for replacements and their staff's knowledge of the equipment.

Service is king with machine control (though the data is a close second).

 

[ksp]

From my experience, Topcon support is not the best but I have never tried Trimble.

 

[Bamgene]

In regards to gps on excavator To check a grade for height. Do you put your cutting edge/ teeth on ground or bucket flat on ground. How do you check the cut and fill levels is what I am asking. Also when your digging with an excavator does it tell you how much to cut as your digging, like in real time or do you have to check the cut level, then dig and then recheck.

 

[JimBruce42]

In regards to gps on excavator To check a grade for height. Do you put your cutting edge/ teeth on ground or bucket flat on ground. How do you check the cut and fill levels is what I am asking. Also when your digging with an excavator does it tell you how much to cut as your digging, like in real time or do you have to check the cut level, then dig and then recheck.

Teeth down, and it's real time grades just like on a dozer. I've got a pic of the monitor somewhere, I'll have to see if I can find it

 

[Bamgene]

Teeth down, and it's real time grades just like on a dozer. I've got a pic of the monitor somewhere, I'll have to see if I can find it

So does your bucket have to be fully curled back? does it matter which angle your teeth are in realtion to the ground or does the teeth need to be facing the ground on the ready to dig angle.

 

[JimBruce42]

So does your bucket have to be fully curled back? does it matter which angle your teeth are in realtion to the ground or does the teeth need to be facing the ground on the ready to dig angle.

To be accurate yes, but you can use that fully opened bucket to clean up in front of you as well. The computer does register the various boom, bucket, stick movements (sensors) and will calculate where the teeth are in relation to the recievers on the counterweight. If you curl the bucket in and set it on the ground with the teeth in the air it will tell you a different grade then if you put the teeth down so they touch the ground.

I couldnt load the photo directly (Site still having issues I guess), but here is a photo of the monitor in the cab (for a trimble unit)

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/5429/dsci0333ve2.jpg

Hope that helps:drinkup

 

[Bamgene]

Yes this has been very helpful thankyou very much

 

[Kman9090]

I was a die hard Trimble fan about 10 days ago but after running and witnessing this 3D-MC2 in person its defiantly the cats meow. 2nd gear full throttle in automatic no problems. It's really amazing how fast and accurate it it. As for the old MC system topcon has its pretty much useless.

 

[grunk36]

I was a die hard Trimble fan about 10 days ago but after running and witnessing this 3D-MC2 in person its defiantly the cats meow. 2nd gear full throttle in automatic no problems. It's really amazing how fast and accurate it it. As for the old MC system topcon has its pretty much useless.

trimbles system can do the excact same thing i have NEVER had any trouble with it and if i only get a little material in front of the blade i can go as fast as the dozer can push in the menu there is a function to speed up the hydraulic valves so it fits different kinds of dirt so i really cant see whats so fantastic about topcon??

 

[Kman9090]

Really neither is probably better than the other but the new topcon system I was very impressed with. We have never been able to get grades as accurate with any other system then with this new one. When we do Mainline we finish it with a dozer and GPS then come back with a M blade with milimeter GPS to put it on grade. We have a tolerance of 2 hundreths and only the millimeter is able to do that.

 

[Kellogg Report]

Topcon's 3DMC2 is fundamentally different from other grade control systems, -including Topcon's own.

The 3DMC2 uses a solid-state inertial sensor mounted where other systems mount a single or dual slope sensor. It measures slope, pitch, yaw, roll and acceleration in every direction. This results in a system with less lag in the computation of blade position and this enables it to give correction at 100 times per second versus most other system that correct 10 times/sec.

Valve tuning is another subject all-together. All systems allow for valve tuning. Unfortunately, sometimes a bad valve calibration reflect poorly on the brand. The manufacturer thus gets 'blamed' for a botched service job.

All things (machine, speed, material, location, tuning, etc.) being equal, a system that corrects at 100Hz and measures position and acceleration in many axis should theoretically outperform a 'blade slope-only' system operating at 10Hz. Difference in performance should be proportional to speed of the machine.

It will be interesting to make this comparison when more of Deere's 764HSD hit the market. These come prepared for either Trimble's GCS900 or Topcon's 3DMC2 and if there are significant differences in performances between these two system, it will be evident to the users of this machine.

 

[buddy605]

one word leica. cost a little more but worth it in costomer service and it is a better machine.

 

[Jfarris]

What does the 3DMC2 system cost to setup on a dozer?

 

[grunk36]

What does the 3DMC2 system cost to setup on a dozer?

it will depend on if the dozer is factory gps ready or not? if it is all cables plugs and valves are allready mounted and in that case it will cost a topcon guy a hour or so to mount and calibrate
otherwise it will take a couple off days :Banghead

 

[Jfarris]

I should have been more specific. What does the MC2 equipment cost? I have a call into my local top con dealer but they haven't gotten back to me yet. I can install everything myself.