Torque Multipliers vs Torque guns

[still learn'n]

First off our Tatu Marchesan disk the gang bolts running thru all the disks are supposed to be tightened to 2500-3000 ft lbs can I do that with a torque multiplier or is a pneumatic or hyd torque gun the only way to go? it is a 2.5 in bolt with a nut that uses a 3 7/8 in socket! Thanks Jerry

 

[Nige]

You can do it with either method IMO but beware of torque multipliers, the stored energy when you get it wound up can kill you in a heartbeat if the reaction bar slips. Used correctly torque multipliers are not [that] dangerous, just when they are used incorrectly.

 

[kshansen]

Don't have any idea of what a Tatu Marchesen is bout this is one we have that might do for you:

http://www.protoindustrial.com/en/industrial-tools/Proto/Precision-Torque-Tools/Torque-Multipliers/600fcaaf-5cc5-4579-8d41-9d9a9d242446_Proto%C2%AE-Torque-Multipliers-3200-Ft-Lbs/

There is on on Ebay right now for $500. not sure if that is a good price, we got ours through Cat many years ago. Last I knew Cat did still sell the replacement drives. They do break if someone does not know what they are doing! Like Nige says you need to know what you are doing or they like any tool can be dangerous!

 

[RBMcCloskey]

Nige,

Truer words were never spoken, can you recommend a video showing the PROPER was of using them?

Bob

 

[still learn'n]

Here is what the disk looks like the right front gang is the problem child

 

[still learn'n]

on a torque multiplier if the reacter arm is not long enough can a cheater be used or is that a no no?

 

[Nige]

Looking at that photo if that's the big nut visible outside the last disc on the RH end of the shaft of the "front axle" the first problem I see is that there is nowhere close by that could function as a stop for the reaction bar of a torque multiplier.

 

[still learn'n]

The main one we are having problems with is the one on the left side of the picture and the tube that the gang bolts to does stick past the end of the gang bolt so that would be a possibility but the disk blades are 42 inch so gang bolt would be like maybe 30 in from the bar and how long are the reacter arms on most multipliers?

 

[Nige]

I've seen cheaters used before to extend the reaction arm but according to the "Book" about using torque multipliers that's a no-no. The problem is that the longer the cheater bar the more it bends making it more likely to slip and if that happens you have a larger missile that gets launched into someone's head, usually with fatal results.

 

[overworked]

You would be better to put a tractor bucket right in there to use, we have a torque multiplier goes to 3200, I won't loan it out and only use it with a torque wrench when loosening, have seen to many broken. They are delicate and dangerous and expensive.

 

[kshansen]

I've seen cheaters used before to extend the reaction arm but according to the "Book" about using torque multipliers that's a no-no. The problem is that the longer the cheater bar the more it bends making it more likely to slip and if that happens you have a larger missile that gets launched into someone's head, usually with fatal results.

Just to add to this. Remember if the handle on the multiplier is 18 inches or 1.5 feet long and you are torquing to 3000 lb/ft that arm will be needing to be held against a 2,000 pound force. If what ever is holding that reaction arm can move or flex and snaps back it can get serious fast.

Are you the manufacture or dealer of these disks? Does the factory have any suggestions on how to accomplish this?

Hard to say from the picture but seems like a bracket could be designed to fit over that large square tubing to hold the reaction arm. Say a section of tubing the next size bigger with a tube that the reaction arm fits into welded on at right angle to it. If you are doing several of these or need to tighten and remove them often would pay for itself. I would just think very carefully about which way the forces are working and pay close attention to any flex while using. You don't want any wind-up of forces as if they unwind suddenly no telling where things will go!

 

[8k bill]

Jerry, make up a spanner out of flat bar 3' to 4' long the size of that nut,next hook the offsets up to a tractor and drive forward with the wheels in the air until the discs start to skid. This method is a bit unortherdox but in the 40 odd years changing out discs I've never had a problem. The most important thing is to do is recheck after a bit of work. Hope this helps. Bill

 

[td25c]

That might work 8K bill . Clean up the threads & lube them up good and as you suggest recheck it a few times . I would probably go with some kind of purpose built wrench myself .

That is a tough looking disk still learn'n . Looks like they use oil bath bearings & Ducone style seals similar to a final drive on heavy equipment . That's pretty cool .


http://www.engsol.co.ug/tatuaccbearings.php
http://www.engsol.co.ug/tatudischarrows.php

 

[wrwtexan]

Have you considered a hammer wrench? We picked up a set at an auction and they work great for gang bolts. Cut the gang in, set the wrench on the nut, and swing as big a sledge as you can find. No idea on torque applied though but probably would depend on hammer size and how many beans in your butt.

 

[td25c]

Have you considered a hammer wrench? . No idea on torque applied though but probably would depend on hammer size and how many beans in your butt.

Extreme caution should be used with this method ..... Someone could get hurt ....... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPIP9KXdmO0

wrwtexan , LOL ! The hammer wrench would also work fine , just don't go overboard on the beans . We don't want to strip the threads on the arbor bolt .

 

[wrwtexan]

Maybe a non sparking hammer should be used or stay downwind to the application of force:lmao

 

[Scrub Puller]

Yair . . .

Can't see the problem, a couple of burly blokes on ten feet of 2'' schedule 80 pipe slipped over a well supported inch drive breaker bar onto that 3 7/8'' socket ought to nip it up just fine . . . as has been mentioned it needs checking a time or two until it settles down.


Cheers.

 

[Nige]

2500-3000ft lbs on a 1" bar....? I think I'd be looking at 1-1/2" drive TBH, just to be on the safe side.

Or you could try something like this, and believe it or not I took this photo yesterday afternoon. The cylinder bench wasn't capable of getting this nut cracked. 5,000 ft. lbs. give or take and the last time it was tightened was before it left the factory so it was going to need even more than the specified torque to initially crack it. So we came up with this which is a solution I'd used years ago in places where there was no proper tooling. A 4ft-long wrench plasma cut from 1-1/2" plate (it weighs 300 pounds on its own, that's why it has a lifting eye on it) anchor the eye end of the rod down with the loader bucket so it can't turn, excavator bucket on the end of the wrench and give it a gentle squeeze - job done in less than 60 seconds. To tighten it we simply marked the relative positions of the nut and the rod before disassembly and will tighten the nut back to exactly the same position because we are not replacing any hard parts, just resealing. If we're going to have these machines for at least 10 years or so the expense of manufacturing the wrench will pay for itself many times over. Just to give an idea of scale the loader is a 980 and the nut is 260mm (10" give or take) across the flats. We used a 336 excavator as the muscle.

 

[kshansen]

Yair . . .

Can't see the problem, a couple of burly blokes on ten feet of 2'' schedule 80 pipe slipped over a well supported inch drive breaker bar onto that 3 7/8'' socket ought to nip it up just fine . . . as has been mentioned it needs checking a time or two until it settles down.


Cheers.

If I got caught using a pipe like that where I work I would get wrote up and a stern talking to:ban

That's why I check to see if any boss is around first and put the cheater pipe away as soon as I'm done

I don't see how trying to put 600 lb/ft on a bolt with 3 foot 3/4 inch breaker bar that will take 200 pound pull is safer than using a 6 foot pipe on the same breaker bar and only pulling 100 pounds:beatsme Especially when I only weigh 185lbs!

Safety germs huh Nige?

 

[kshansen]

2500-3000ft lbs on a 1" bar....? I think I'd be looking at 1-1/2" drive TBH, just to be on the safe side.

Or you could try something like this, and believe it or not I took this photo yesterday afternoon. The cylinder bench wasn't capable of getting this nut cracked. 5,000 ft. lbs. give or take and the last time it was tightened was before it left the factory so it was going to need even more than the specified torque to initially crack it. So we came up with this which is a solution I'd used years ago in places where there was no proper tooling. A 4ft-long wrench plasma cut from 1-1/2" plate (it weighs 300 pounds on its own, that's why it has a lifting eye on it) anchor the eye end of the rod down with the loader bucket so it can't turn, excavator bucket on the end of the wrench and give it a gentle squeeze - job done in less than 60 seconds. To tighten it we simply marked the relative positions of the nut and the rod before disassembly and will tighten the nut back to exactly the same position because we are not replacing any hard parts, just resealing. If we're going to have these machines for at least 10 years or so the expense of manufacturing the wrench will pay for itself many times over. Just to give an idea of scale the loader is a 980 and the nut is 260mm (10" give or take) across the flats. We used a 336 excavator as the muscle.

View attachment 127981

We need to get your people to make a tool for us! Have a hoist cylinder off a little 769D that needs a seal replaced. Local Cat dealer can not remove the head from the end of one section to replace the seal and back-up ring!



The oring and back-up ring are 25 and 26 inside of tube #24

Only thing that saved us is someone at a different quarry in the company drove another 769D off the face and totaled that one. So we were able to salvage a cylinder off that truck. Otherwise we were looking at about $5,000.00 plus the seal kit and assembling of the cylinder

Instead of the $250 for a seal kit. I think I will try to talk the boss into letting me send this one to a Mennonite owned machine shop we deal with at times. Let them know the part is scrap now so if they destroy it it's no big deal. I have a couple ideas but don't have access to a cylinder bench to hold the tube or turn the head. Right now head has two 1/2 (I think) spanner wrench holes in the top.