Tiltrotators and Today's Marketplace

[RoadDoc]

Thanks them1677. That's exactly what we've been talking about here. I had forgotten about Leibher's version. Looks like a great design. :thumbsup

There are starting to be more wheeled machines around here in the U.S. They've been around Europe for a long time. Wonder how much longer it will be until the attachments from Europe catch up here, though? I look forward to their arrival. I think those types of attachments will make some our of projects easier. :yup

I really enjoy these forums and other websites that have expanded my knowledge of how things can be done. I've learned so much from what I read here from other operators and owners of equipment. Thanks to all. Look forward to learning more. :notworthy

 

[eric4221]

Hello RoadDoc,
My name is Eric I am with the Liebherr dealer here in Georgia. Please give me a call when you get a chance and let us see about doing a demo on a liebherr unit with a rotator. I will look today and see what I have availble to do this. My number is 678-409-4730
Thank you
Eric

 

[dirthog28]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmJsytM5hdM

This is probably the best video I've seen of the 360 bucket being used, I run a excavator probably 80% of the time and will have to say this guy is awesome, there's probably 2 or 3 other videos of him on youtube.

The 360 bucket would be awesome to have, but on our jobsites they would only be needed everyonce in a while. Plus the cost of it wouldn't justive for no more than you would need. At work were lucky to have a couple mechinical thumbs and one rubber tire excavator has a quick coupler and a helac tilt attachment. I would just be happy with a helac tilt on a machine yet alone a 360 bucket. Plus our kind of work we'd destroy the 360 beatin and pullin on things.

 

[blueman]

Thanks for your imput blueman. I've seen some Volvo literature about a utility contractor in Texas that bought one for cleanup/restoration. Have you seen it?

RoadDoc, Yes I heard of that. Some folks in Texas used a wheeled Volvo with 2 piece boom, Rototilt and grapple to clear logjams under bridges after a hurricane.
With the extra boom the machine just stood on top of the bridge and reached under, picking the jam apart. An operator and a spotter took 2 hrs to do what a full team of manual labor and boats took 2 days. They talked about adding a camera on the boom to do without the spotter! Being street legal it could travel to the next bridge and keep going.

 

[RoadDoc]

Hello RoadDoc,
My name is Eric I am with the Liebherr dealer here in Georgia. Please give me a call when you get a chance and let us see about doing a demo on a liebherr unit with a rotator. I will look today and see what I have availble to do this. My number is 678-409-4730
Thank you
Eric

Thanks for the offer, Eric. Looks like I'm going to be in Kentucky for this season. I'll be sure to look you up if anything changes! :usa
That Liebherr rig looks good.

 

[RoadDoc]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmJsytM5hdM

This is probably the best video I've seen of the 360 bucket being used, I run a excavator probably 80% of the time and will have to say this guy is awesome, there's probably 2 or 3 other videos of him on youtube.

The 360 bucket would be awesome to have, but on our jobsites they would only be needed everyonce in a while. Plus the cost of it wouldn't justive for no more than you would need. At work were lucky to have a couple mechinical thumbs and one rubber tire excavator has a quick coupler and a helac tilt attachment. I would just be happy with a helac tilt on a machine yet alone a 360 bucket. Plus our kind of work we'd destroy the 360 beatin and pullin on things.

Thanks for your input, Dirthog. Hadn't thought about how handy a tiltrotator would be for shaping. Like a surgeon's blade.

I agree that not everyone is gonna need one. I'd just like to see more around. I know what you mean about the tilt option. It opens up a lot more opportunities to do different tasks. I was pretty excited to have one around when I did have one. Made life alot easier most times.

 

[RoadDoc]

RoadDoc, Yes I heard of that. Some folks in Texas used a wheeled Volvo with 2 piece boom, Rototilt and grapple to clear logjams under bridges after a hurricane.
With the extra boom the machine just stood on top of the bridge and reached under, picking the jam apart. An operator and a spotter took 2 hrs to do what a full team of manual labor and boats took 2 days. They talked about adding a camera on the boom to do without the spotter! Being street legal it could travel to the next bridge and keep going.

:exactly

I could seriously get into that!


The literature that I saw was about a utility contractor that was using his to do restoration after installing water lines or sewer lines... Can't remember exactly. I thought it was cool anyway, I do remember that!

 

[AtlasRob]

:lmao now thats innovation, you made a complete thread out of my fright (sorry quote)

A couple of comments I want to make.

Hendrik mentions stress on the slew which I would tend to agree with if you give the attachment to a driver I feel an operator will know that a machines slew is the weakest link in getting the product ( production ) from the attachment and treat it with due regard. We all know somebody who is a bit hard on equipment and this baby is not for them :IMO

Sweden is not exaggerating about the need for a tiltrotator in his part of the world ( they did invent them though ) It is as rare to see a machine without a t/rot out there as it is to see a 10-20t exc without a quick hitch in the UK.

I plan a show visit on Thursday for a closer look as a couple of things are in the pipeline and I am getting the tiltrotator urge .

A major contractor has banned all semi-automatic hitches and any fully automatic hitches that dont have a seperate front pin lock as of 1st Nov 2009
QUOTE
Skanska bans semi-automatic quick hitches after worker killed
10:03 11 May 2009
By Aaron Morby

Skanska is the first UK contractor to ban all existing semi-automatic and some automatic excavator quick hitches from its sites

This decision comes after investigations into an accident on a Skanska UK site in December last year, when a bucket became detached from an excavator and struck a carpenter tragically resulting in fatal injuries.

The ban applies to semi-automatic and automatic excavator quick hitches that do not lock onto both pins of the bucket and comes into force, 1 November.

Greg Craig, managing director of Skanska UK’s civil engineering business, said: “We have decided to drive a change into our supply chain in response to a very serious issue that has plagued our industry. We hope other contractors will follow.”


Harold Sheridan, 58, was killed on the £211m Docklands Light Railway extension job after being hit on the head by a digger bucket. British Transport Police are currently investigating the case.

Skanska said it would now require all excavators fitted with automatic quick hitches to use the new generation twin locking devices. This equipment locks both the pins of the bucket.

The ban has been delayed until November to allow plant hirers time to switch to the new generation of quick hitches.

During the interim period, Skanska plans to start a proactive training programme in the safe use of existing quick hitch equipment.

END QUOTE

The first thing I want to check is if the hitch will meet this criteria as it picks up on front lugs :beatsme

AS for cost, say £12000 very fast then smile sweetly the wife is not convinced,..................... I thought we were about to have another addition to the family ........ add on £8000 for a big chain trencher and I see the makings of a business plan :OMG

Put a set of forks on a t/rota and you can unload a truck while sat beside it with a duck or tracked exc.

 

[dayexco]

in my 43 yrs of having my fat arse sitting on the seat of an excavator...i think i could count on 2 hands how many times in my particular instance...one of those would be beneficial. i'm not above buying technology, i have most of the toys....i guess in the one part of the pic, i don't want a $160k excavator backfilling a foundation wall, i'll put a $20k skiddy doing that, have the excavator out doing what it does best...hogging dirt.

 

[RoadDoc]

Tiltrotators aren't for everybody

dayexco:

Thank you for your perspective. I can certainly appreciate where you are coming from. These types of attachments aren't going to be for everyone. I've been on many jobs where it is all the hoe can do to keep the crew productive by just digging trench every minute of every day, year in and year out. Some contractors have earned their way into that kind of steady market. Why spend a dime more than what you precisely need to accomplish that task? No reason whatsoever. Size the machine to the task, get the one that's gonna have the lowest operating expense over its lifetime with a good resale value at the end, find someone to take care of it during that time and start making money.

 

[RoadDoc]

AtlasRob's got the "mojo" working....

:lmao now thats innovation, you made a complete thread out of my fright (sorry quote)

Thanks for sharing, AtlasRob.

I plan a show visit on Thursday for a closer look as a couple of things are in the pipeline and I am getting the tiltrotator urge .

opcorn Pictures Please!

AS for cost, say £12000 very fast then smile sweetly the wife is not convinced,..................... I thought we were about to have another addition to the family

:jerry

........ add on £8000 for a big chain trencher and I see the makings of a business plan :OMG

Please provide transcript, in detail, so that I may consider same approach/technique........ Do include all required promises, gifts, bribes, number of hours spent on knees, tears shed/not shed, vacations, jewelry, additional chores, hobbies sacraficed, new decor purchased, inlaws moving in, etc.,etc...... :notworthy

Thanks a bunch for your contribution!

 

[Eddiebackblade]

Thanks for posting that info on the first official 'Hitch Ban' Rob, I personally think the Dam will now burst and there will soon be a blanket ban on them coming directly from the HSE.
I like yourself am torn with the whole Hitch/Tiltrotator issue, having a semi automatic Hitch on my Hitachi and requiring a tilt bucket for type of work I do.
I would have normally opted for the new Miller 'Twinlock' as I feel this will become the most popular hitch in the UK, and have a custom Tilt bucket manufactured for something in the £1,800 to £2100 region. I will also have to add an auxiliary pedal and have appropriate lines or convert the breaker pipe to two way.
However when added up you are a good way into that Tiltrotator price and the added versatility it will bring.
I have worked many shifts on hire to the now departed Wrekin construction, and they had many machines equipped with the Engcon system.
To be honest they are simply awesome, and with an interested operator can perform tasks you can hardly imagine.
You don't want to be on the same road job spreading soil with a straight blade as one of these!
Having viewed your pics and website Rob I don't have any doubts that you are exactly the type of operator these things are made for.
I know things are tough at the moment, but I can't see many gangs wanting to let you go if you turn up with the 'Jingle Jangle' bucket and start carving a few turns for them.

 

[RoadDoc]

Eddiebackblade is right.

You don't want to be on the same road job spreading soil with a straight blade as one of these!
Having viewed your pics and website Rob I don't have any doubts that you are exactly the type of operator these things are made for.
I know things are tough at the moment, but I can't see many gangs wanting to let you go if you turn up with the 'Jingle Jangle' bucket and start carving a few turns for them.

:iagree:yup:exactly:naughty

Gotta do it, Rob!

 

[AtlasRob]

Thanks for the kind words boys,......I'm sure I can feel a rather large hand in the middle of my back that seems to be pushing me towards that funny rotating tilty thing ( cant keep saying Engcon- other makes are available )

I had a very imformative and educational conversation with a couple of very experienced guys on the stand at the plant show today.

The question still to be answered will be whether this hitch will fall under the ban by Skanska that, as Eddie, (and I agree) quite rightly predicts is likely to lead other contractors down the same path.
It will be intresting as this manufacturer has just made a big fanfare ( and I dont blame them) having been passed and accepted by the rail industry which is one of the most rigerous testing and inspection regimes that I am aware of.
They are confident and reckon that a visit from Skanska persons yesterday went very well.

Education :notworthy

There are a couple of ways to do this.
1) pin the rotator to the machine, and have any spec Quick hitch under it that you require. So I could have a hitch to pick up my existing buckets if I wanted.
2) Have a Engcon fully auto hyd hitch on the machine that can then pick up a rotator. The rotator can have any spec hitch you require but common sense says you would have the same as the one on top. Having changed or altered your buckets you go to work :cool2 Using a breaker with the rotator is fine for short periods but its suggested that if you have a couple of hours or more to do its better to drop the rotator off, which makes perfect sense to me.

Having a hitch on the machine allows you the option to not use the rotator if for example you have a couple of days breaker work or if you have a couple of machines you can share the rotator between the two machines whilst the other machine still has use of all its buckets, breaker,grab etc etc.

My first question was what stops you flicking the wrong switch ( 2 in the cab ) and releasing the top hitch by mistake ( brain fart ) and ripping all the pipework and electrics off.
Answer, having picked up the rotator you connect the pipes and as soon as you plug the electrics in it cuts out the top hitch.

How many sets of pipes do I need? obviously at least 4 = 2 Q hitches + rotate + swivel :nono

1 set for the top Q hitch ( normal) + 1 set for the rest
The electrics operate a valve block within the rotator that can provide up to 6....... YES.. 6 operations one of which would be your quick hitch. :notworthy

OK, so now I need new joysticks as rollers are the best way to get true operation :nono

Look at this,



These are clipped onto the original levers which in turn connect to a contol box installed in the cab which is then wired to a plug on the dipper arm to plug the rotator into. :notworthy



I had the chance ( was cajouled ) into the seat of the demo Volvo 140 but I refused to play....... I didnt trust myself........... I was sat on a card with enough credit facility on it to have bought one there and then,......... I just didnt trust myself to play .....:tong ........I said it wasnt fair as I had to get back on the duck tomorrow with buttons to control an oscillating bucket.

Sorry guys,....... I bottled it

on edit, there is no cost difference between option 1 or 2.

 

[RoadDoc]

Sorry guys,....... I bottled it

:nono


You didn't bottle it at all. You are merely making a wise choice to see how the hitch ban plays out.

When the time is precisely right......:bash

You got em right were you want em!

 

[blueman]

AtlasRob,
Nice picture of the dial-style joystick controls. Aftermarket is fine but I know you can get proportional/rocker switches from the Volvo factory now (presumably others too). As far as your 1 vs 2 pin-on the rotating tilty thingy on the arm or have another coupler on top of it: I don't know Engcon so well but the Rototilt/Indexator version has the same coupler geometry as Volvo's S couplers. I kinda assume it'd be the same for other scandinavian supplies.
So you can get the drop the tilty thingy for the odd hammer work or if it becomes dead weight for some odd jobs.

 

[AtlasRob]

Aftermarket is fine but I know you can get proportional/rocker switches from the Volvo factory now (presumably others too). .......... I don't know Engcon so well but the Rototilt/Indexator version has the same coupler geometry as Volvo's S couplers. ............

Thanks for the info. I half suspected that rollers were available in some sticks now, just a case of if and how much

I am not conversant with the Volvo "S" coupler but I do believe that the Scandanavian countries got together and all work to a standard set of width and pin centres for thier hitch and attachments based on pin diameter,....... now why the hell cant the rest of the manufacturers put thier heads together and work to one standard :beatsme

 

[blueman]

AtlasRob,
I understood Volvo S coupler geometries are the basis for the new Scandinavian standards and that's why Rototilt uses them. . . so hey, I'm all for the rest of the world following such enlightened folks . . . !

 

[Eddiebackblade]

In a similar dilema to you Rob, had a long hard look at SED and asked the question about the Engcon hitch not holding onto the front bucket pin in the event of a bucket not being fully connected.
The replies were varied, but all conceded that it is a scenario that the current hitch is not prepared for.
However I would be willing to go for it with the current system as the advantages far outweigh any negative aspects of the system.
The main problem for me is the Zaxis only has a basic Hammer pipe circuit with an electric type pedal and no additional buttons on the levers.
I would probably need new levers with the proportional controls at considerable cost I assume!
I too had a go in the Volvo 140 on the stand and it really was incredible, excellent control and very logical to use.
Engcon have been most helpful, and the company with the demo Volvo at SED are the same company who are going to do my LGP conversion.
If I can find some realistic finance then my plan is to have the track frame conversion done along with the fitting of the Engcon at the same time.
I would run with the standard tracks as the machine will only be a little wider, until I need the LGP chains and pads.
I have a booking for August for the LGP set up, but figure the Tiltrotator will benefit me every time I use the machine so should come first.
I'm really struggling to justify having one fitted and how the thing is going to pay?
However I still do this job because there is nothing like standing on the end of the track and thinking that's a bloody good job! (I know self praise is No praise!) but we all feel a certain satisfaction of leaving a tidy job.
I just think the Tiltrotator will push me to the next level.

 

[Sweden]

Correct. The bucket spins 360 and tilts 40 to 45 degrees depending upon the manufacturer. They come with hydraulic quick couplers and auxillary hydraulic couplers as well.:notworthy

There should be a link to a manufacturer's site in the first posting.

Hi, i have been working away and have not had any internet(middle of nowhere)
However i had a chat with some guys at engcon. I met them at a construction show i Stockholm www.maskinexpo.se
Obviously they have a demo in Salt-Lake city at some point in June, and their only dealer is based in California called Digpro.
If you are interested in a demo on your machine you should contact a guy from my hometown. He is based in UK most of the time but has a position as international sales or some other title. His background is construction and he's a very expirienced operator as well. hes name is daniel and his details are on engcon's website.
I am on a Doosan machine for the first time in my life and i quite like the machine,3m dipper, high spec with reverse camera and everything..