Tier 4 anyone?

[Huey Jr.]

I'm just curious if anyone has purchased a tier 4 loader yet? We are looking to buy 3 Deere 824 K series II and two 980K and maybe Komatsu's W500-7. Our 980H's are total turds. However our tier 2 and 3 824J's are absolutely great. My personal favorite is our Komatsu WA-500-6. That thing is a beast. It's the only machine with better cycle times than our old Cat 980G. I've run the Deere 824K's and Cat 980K's and was impressed with the power and comfort. However a week on each does not give a real world example of reliability, performance, and fuel consumption. Plus how is it dealing with the particulate filter and have the dealer come out to service it?

 

[dneedelman]

Huey, I work for a Cat dealer so I can only speak for the Cat Tier 4I product. We haven't had any DPF issues & we have over 80 pieces out in the field. We have some 349E excavators with over 2500 hours on it with zero service on the DPF. Hope this helps, feel free to email me with more questions at dneedelman@quinncompany.com

 

[hootsmcgoots]

Unless I was told wrong, as of now Komatsu has the only T4i engines that don't have to stop to perform a Regen cycle (I could be mistaken, wait for someone else to correct me:beatsme). Also, under the KomatsuCare program all services are covered up to 3yrs/2000 hrs with no charge, and one DPF exchange @ 4500 hrs. That would cover the DPF up to 9000hrs assuming there are no other probs causing the DPF to fail.


http://www.komatsuamerica.com/komatsucare

 

[dneedelman]

Komatsu isn't the only company who doesn't have to stop to do there regen. All of the major equipment manufactures can Regen on the fly, they just use different technology in doing this. Deere & Komatsu are using the Dosing style which sends fuel into the DPF & when the temperature is hot enough it should ignite. If the operating condition doesn't get enough heat in the DPF, then you will have to pull over & run the loader at a high idle.

Caterpillar is sending the fuel into the DPF, but they are the only major company that is using a spark plug to ignite the fuel. This way no matter what the operating condition is, the loader never has to stop to regen. Cat is also including a 5,000 hour powertrain warranty on tier 4i equipment & a 6,000 hour warranty on the DPF.

 

[Huey Jr.]

Well I certainly appreciate your guy's input. I sounds like about what I've heard so far. The fuel consumption is also a major concern. Does anybody have a real world feel of where it's at?

 

[dneedelman]

Well I certainly appreciate your guy's input. I sounds like about what I've heard so far. The fuel consumption is also a major concern. Does anybody have a real world feel of where it's at?

Huey,

The 4 units we have sold in southern California are averaging 8 GPH. 2 of the units have been sold to Cemex, one to a sand & gravel yard & one to a rock quarry.

What is you application & what part of the country are you working in? With the new Cat Product link they can bring up region specific actual fuel burn in the new K series loaders.

 

[John C.]

I've been told the only manufacturer that has to stop of regen is Volvo.

Is that true?

 

[SFOSTER89]

No. On all tier 4 volvos they can be running whilst carrying out a regen. the only time they have to stop to carry out a regen is when the driver fails to regenerate multiple times. Only then does the machine have to be at a standstill to do the regeneration safely.

dneedelman on volvos own engines the D9 to D16 they also use spark plugs to ignite the fuel in the dpf.

Hope this helps.

 

[Huey Jr.]

Huey,

The 4 units we have sold in southern California are averaging 8 GPH. 2 of the units have been sold to Cemex, one to a sand & gravel yard & one to a rock quarry.

What is you application & what part of the country are you working in? With the new Cat Product link they can bring up region specific actual fuel burn in the new K series loaders.

Rock Quarry/Gravel pit. Feeding crushers and loading trucks. Salt Lake City Utah.

 

[Magnum]

Hi guys!
I believe that all manufacturers have got no stop regen. Otherwise they would soon be out of the game. When it comes to the DPF I´ve heard that there is a EPA regulation that says that the serviceinterval for the filter should be at least 4500 hrs.
I have only tried larger G-series Volvos and K-series Cat loaders and the difference for the operator is that in the Volvo there is a display info that tells the operator to push a button when it is time to regen so it is not fully automatic like the Cat system is. Since the exhaust temp rises while regen the DPF Volvo want´s the operator to decide if it is safe to do so or not. In the Cat loader I believe that the operator can choose if it should be automatic or manual. Maybe that is better, I do not really know.. Also when regen the DPF on the K-series Cat the low idle rises from 800 rpm to 1100 rpm and on the Volvos from 700 to 900 rpm.

Then there is another solution that I believe Case loaders uses with DEF fluid. They have no DPF filter but instead you have to fill DEF fluid. The benefit with this is that the fuel consumption is lower than with the DPF solution but then again, you have to fill DEF fluid instead. Does anyone have any experience from Case loaders?

My personal opinion is that no matter what you should always regen the DPF while working with the machine, if you choose to do it when the machine is running on idle you are just waisting fuel, as soon as you are running on idle for more than 5 minutes the engine should be turned of.

 

[SFOSTER89]

Magnum some manufacturers have gone down the DPF route and some have gone down the adblu / DEF fluid route. But by 2014 all manufacturers need to have both systems operating on their machines to meet the next stage in engine emission regulations.

I have also been told that by 2016 all manufacturers must go to all machines with both systems on annually and perform an emissions test.

 

[Magnum]

Magnum some manufacturers have gone down the DPF route and some have gone down the adblu / DEF fluid route. But by 2014 all manufacturers need to have both systems operating on their machines to meet the next stage in engine emission regulations.

I have also been told that by 2016 all manufacturers must go to all machines with both systems on annually and perform an emissions test.

I read in a branch magazine a couple of days ago that the other big Swedish truck manufacturer Scania has got a 6 cylinder, 13 litre engine that fulfills EPA Tier 4F and EU stage 4 without DPF. Since both Doosan and Terex uses Scania engines today that will be a huge benefit for them.

 

[SFOSTER89]

All road going trucks in the uk have been using adblu for the last 3-4 years. Im sure the road going trucks will also have to run a DFP along with adblu in the next year or 2.