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The JLG 40F Boom Lift Dilemma
- Thread starter od1
- Start date
OFF
Senior Member
Look back to page 82 for post #1630. Pictures #2 and #3 show valves that could be steer valves. These are what you are looking for on your machine. The one you want will be the only valve in either of the Racine solenoid valve banks that has small hoses going to the hydraulic swivel unit.
Another method is the process of elimination. Disconnect a wire from one valve at a time, and see what stops working.
OFF
Senior Member
and don't forget to mark each valve as you figure out what it does.
skymoco
Member
Since this seems to be "The Thread" for JLG lift questions... I have a 60FR from 1977 with the Ford Engine. It's been "fixed up" over the years and I am trying to get it workable. The main cylinder leaked so bad it would take 5 gallons to lift it. I pulled the boom off and rebuilt the cylinder but have a couple problems.
1. I don't see any manuals available for this particular model, just the 60H.
2. There are two electrically operated bypass valves, one for the Racine valves (Travel, Lift, swing) and another for the Vickers (Rotate, Level, Extend, Steering) valves. When I enable the Racine one, the engine bogs down. Since this is the only one that goes through the filter, I assume the filter is clogged but I cannot undo the filter even with a 4 foot extension on socket. This sound reasonable? Any hints on the filter?
3. Now that I have the lift cylinder repaired, when I go to lift the boom the engine just barely has enough power, if I switch hoses and run off the other valve set, it raises just fine. I think this is related to #2, but thought I would ask.
4. There is a pressure relief valve attached to the basket level, this makes no sense to me and I think someone just plumbed this up wrong.
5. I had to make a new link for the cable Track, if anyone needs one, let me know and I'll make one for you. I have it all drawn up on the CNC. PM me.
1. I don't see any manuals available for this particular model, just the 60H.
2. There are two electrically operated bypass valves, one for the Racine valves (Travel, Lift, swing) and another for the Vickers (Rotate, Level, Extend, Steering) valves. When I enable the Racine one, the engine bogs down. Since this is the only one that goes through the filter, I assume the filter is clogged but I cannot undo the filter even with a 4 foot extension on socket. This sound reasonable? Any hints on the filter?
3. Now that I have the lift cylinder repaired, when I go to lift the boom the engine just barely has enough power, if I switch hoses and run off the other valve set, it raises just fine. I think this is related to #2, but thought I would ask.
4. There is a pressure relief valve attached to the basket level, this makes no sense to me and I think someone just plumbed this up wrong.
5. I had to make a new link for the cable Track, if anyone needs one, let me know and I'll make one for you. I have it all drawn up on the CNC. PM me.
Attachments
OFF
Senior Member
Skymoco, I believe that solenoid valve bank you have there is made by FPR. (Fluid Power Research). They were pretty trouble free for the most part.
There is a high pressure filter inside a large metal canister, I assume that's what you refer to. I believe that was a JLG only part number. There were two sizes, a very large "early" and smaller "late" model. I almost think I would look into replacing the unit with a Genie part. Much more common and easily available.
Certain functions did have pressure reliefs just to keep things from destroying themselves.
Nice job on that cable tray plate. I remember taking whole cable trays apart, pin by pin to clean and lubricate. Fun stuff.
There is a high pressure filter inside a large metal canister, I assume that's what you refer to. I believe that was a JLG only part number. There were two sizes, a very large "early" and smaller "late" model. I almost think I would look into replacing the unit with a Genie part. Much more common and easily available.
Certain functions did have pressure reliefs just to keep things from destroying themselves.
Nice job on that cable tray plate. I remember taking whole cable trays apart, pin by pin to clean and lubricate. Fun stuff.
skymoco
Member
Off, thanks. I really enjoy working on this older stuff and making the parts I need. I assume that JLG would have this filter, here's a lousy picture, I'll get a better one once I get it cleaned off. I sprayed it with some dawn detergent and will wash it off in the am. I was hoping to get a filter at NAPA, but perhaps not..
Replace it with something like so: Filter
Replace it with something like so: Filter
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OFF
Senior Member
That's the older or large style high pressure filter. What's inside there is something that looks like this.
This is actually the later & smaller version but they are much the same. That metal mesh is both inside and outside with a multi-fold fiberglass looking filter media between the layers. Made to withstand 6000 PSI pressure. You won't find anything like that at NAPA unfortunately.
This is actually the later & smaller version but they are much the same. That metal mesh is both inside and outside with a multi-fold fiberglass looking filter media between the layers. Made to withstand 6000 PSI pressure. You won't find anything like that at NAPA unfortunately.
skymoco
Member
I pulled mine off and it's pretty clean, I poured some fluid though it and I don't think that's my problem as it flows through about as fast as I can pour. I ordered one anyways as it doesn't hurt to replace it after all these years.
Next I am thinking maybe the relief valve is stuck or something on this valve body. Even when all the valves are closed (no electricity to it) the engine bogs down when this gets fluid. Any idea where to start with it?
Next I am thinking maybe the relief valve is stuck or something on this valve body. Even when all the valves are closed (no electricity to it) the engine bogs down when this gets fluid. Any idea where to start with it?
Attachments
OFF
Senior Member
when on ground control, those valves are seeing full hydraulic flow/energy/pressure. On basket, the valves are only powered when you have a foot on the pedal and a control activated.
Here's some schematics:
Here's some schematics:
OFF
Senior Member
On that Racine valve bank, there will be what is called a "dump valve". It will be on one end or the other - or remotely mounted and hooked up with a large hose. This dump valve has a single electrical coil on it and a pressure relief valve and test port. Test & Make sure your relief isn't set way high.
skymoco
Member
It's a little complicated as mine was stripped down and just used as a crane to set trusses so the wiring was all removed and what I got was a pile of controls and wire. I am slowly rewiring it. I redid the engine wiring and that works great, even the automatic throttle. There are two dump valves, when I apply power to this one the engine bogs down and just about stalls, this is without power to any of the control valves. The other dump valve doesn't change the engine rpm at all. My understanding is that when I apply power to the dump valves, this should just barely change the rpm as there is only around 100 PSI back pressure through the control valves.
This is the dump valve I am applying power to. I'll get a hydraulic tester and start checking pressures, I don't see a port on the valve, but there is one at the filter.
Appreciate your help.
Attachments
Boogered40f
New Member
Hello everyone, I need a little help and this is the place for it.
Backstory is that I’ve got this jlg for “free” (get it running then use it to fix the roof of this hoop barn and I get to take it home)
I thought it was a 40f, after googling for hours every brand of man lift and guessing 70’s era based on the Wisconsin and how it’s built.
I got a 40f manual on eBay, after perusing I guess this thing predates the 40f. I’m guessing based on user “OFF” that it’s a 40-45?
All standard bang valves zero proportional anything, lower controls work which is a miracle, the Wisconsin burns oil but who cares. Here’s my problem, most I can figure out (been figuring things out since I was a little kid) I just need details. I’ll start with the biggest ones first.
1: Fly boom won’t extend. After getting the thing running I was able to drive it by walking back and forth holding an rc car battery pack and manually operating the “steer” and “drive” solenoids with alligator clips. After getting it under the hoop barn I’m trying to fix, I stung out and watched a mangled chunk of (#50?) machine chain slide out of a hole under the main boom. I think it’s a 40-45 because it has a single fly boom chain instead of the 40f’s double chain. I’ll dog off the fly boom to something heavy and sting in the main boom till I can get to the guts and replace the chain. I just need to know what size chain it is. Again I think it’s #50
2: I think it’s 1 wheel drive right now, dunno how that can happen without oil spewing everywhere. Btw my God hydraulic oil is expensive! The previous owner had passed and his wife is managing the extensive “junk” aka treasures collection and this is part of it.
3: controls are shot at boom tip. I can identify diodes up there, im guessing to mitigate any electrical weirdness after a coil Is de-energized but I can figure that out. It’s just switches on this thing there’s nothing fancy.
4: there’s two packs of three solenoid valves that I’ve identified what they do, but there’s another up above the rest, I’m guessing it the hi-drive? But it’s a two way valve so that makes me confused. I’m having to decipher based on my 40f manual what is going on with this thing. Oh and this talk about dump valves I have no idea I can’t find one on this thing but there is an extra solenoid on the crossmember, one for the emergency power pack and the other ????
5: finally, the hose carrier (power track) on the back of the boom needs some love. I’ve disassembled it as best I can and have been straightening individual links on my anvil so that I can reassemble it in a working fashion. If anyone can provide me with some info on the cable track that would be great, as a couple links need to be replaced, and at $500 ish for half the length I need, I’d rather try to fix it. (Did I mention the lift was free?) whew I know thats a lot but thank your lucky stars you’re not the broke ass dipsh$;(t who’s trying to fix it haha
Backstory is that I’ve got this jlg for “free” (get it running then use it to fix the roof of this hoop barn and I get to take it home)
I thought it was a 40f, after googling for hours every brand of man lift and guessing 70’s era based on the Wisconsin and how it’s built.
I got a 40f manual on eBay, after perusing I guess this thing predates the 40f. I’m guessing based on user “OFF” that it’s a 40-45?
All standard bang valves zero proportional anything, lower controls work which is a miracle, the Wisconsin burns oil but who cares. Here’s my problem, most I can figure out (been figuring things out since I was a little kid) I just need details. I’ll start with the biggest ones first.
1: Fly boom won’t extend. After getting the thing running I was able to drive it by walking back and forth holding an rc car battery pack and manually operating the “steer” and “drive” solenoids with alligator clips. After getting it under the hoop barn I’m trying to fix, I stung out and watched a mangled chunk of (#50?) machine chain slide out of a hole under the main boom. I think it’s a 40-45 because it has a single fly boom chain instead of the 40f’s double chain. I’ll dog off the fly boom to something heavy and sting in the main boom till I can get to the guts and replace the chain. I just need to know what size chain it is. Again I think it’s #50
2: I think it’s 1 wheel drive right now, dunno how that can happen without oil spewing everywhere. Btw my God hydraulic oil is expensive! The previous owner had passed and his wife is managing the extensive “junk” aka treasures collection and this is part of it.
3: controls are shot at boom tip. I can identify diodes up there, im guessing to mitigate any electrical weirdness after a coil Is de-energized but I can figure that out. It’s just switches on this thing there’s nothing fancy.
4: there’s two packs of three solenoid valves that I’ve identified what they do, but there’s another up above the rest, I’m guessing it the hi-drive? But it’s a two way valve so that makes me confused. I’m having to decipher based on my 40f manual what is going on with this thing. Oh and this talk about dump valves I have no idea I can’t find one on this thing but there is an extra solenoid on the crossmember, one for the emergency power pack and the other ????
5: finally, the hose carrier (power track) on the back of the boom needs some love. I’ve disassembled it as best I can and have been straightening individual links on my anvil so that I can reassemble it in a working fashion. If anyone can provide me with some info on the cable track that would be great, as a couple links need to be replaced, and at $500 ish for half the length I need, I’d rather try to fix it. (Did I mention the lift was free?) whew I know thats a lot but thank your lucky stars you’re not the broke ass dipsh$;(t who’s trying to fix it haha
OFF
Senior Member
Welcome Boogered40F,
There are some tips on telling the difference between a 40F, and an earlier 40-45 on about page 70 of this thread. There pre-1976
basically, if your manual decent valves (look like outdoor water tap handles) are mounting on the plate under the boom rest and connected with long rods, you have 40-45.
1) your boom won't telescope without the chain. It's broke.
2) best way is to jack the drive wheels off the ground and support with blocking or jack stands. You'll see what wheel moves and what doesn't. These were not off-road machines.
3) For controller identification on the oldies, see post #1210 on page 61 (of this thread). Also see post #1344 on page 68. This is most likely what you have.
4) best way to identify what each valve does is to pull one wire on one valve and see what doesn't work anymore.
Those solenoids down on the crossmember behind the engine were typically for the dump valves, horn, electric choke if equipped, and aux. power.
5) look back in the posts, last page or so, member Skymoco made up some new plates. Post #1745
There are some tips on telling the difference between a 40F, and an earlier 40-45 on about page 70 of this thread. There pre-1976
basically, if your manual decent valves (look like outdoor water tap handles) are mounting on the plate under the boom rest and connected with long rods, you have 40-45.
1) your boom won't telescope without the chain. It's broke.
2) best way is to jack the drive wheels off the ground and support with blocking or jack stands. You'll see what wheel moves and what doesn't. These were not off-road machines.
3) For controller identification on the oldies, see post #1210 on page 61 (of this thread). Also see post #1344 on page 68. This is most likely what you have.
4) best way to identify what each valve does is to pull one wire on one valve and see what doesn't work anymore.
Those solenoids down on the crossmember behind the engine were typically for the dump valves, horn, electric choke if equipped, and aux. power.
5) look back in the posts, last page or so, member Skymoco made up some new plates. Post #1745
Boogered40f
New Member
Thanks OFF!
1) Yeah I know the boom’s busted, even though the first boom does extend since it’s the one attached to the hydraulic cylinder. just needed the chain size if you knew it but i guess I can measure it to know for sure. I’ll have to make my own chain adjuster bolts anyway since they’re missing. After completely removing the fly boom and verifying the integrity of the chain that’s left behind. Kinda spooky thinking that only one chain is what keeps that fly boom from slamming back into the main boom while it’s in the air.
2) I’ll see about getting some pics of the “controller”. It’s going to need to be completely rebuilt. It’s beyond busted and if you switch to upper controls the boom starts to sting out by itself.
3) I’ve got the valves laid out, swing, sting and drive on the left side if you’re standing facing the counterweight. Basket tilt, boom, and steer on the right. It’s the valve above both packages that has me stumped, by itself and a two-way valve. I guess hi-drive but I’ll figure out a way to prove it.
1) Yeah I know the boom’s busted, even though the first boom does extend since it’s the one attached to the hydraulic cylinder. just needed the chain size if you knew it but i guess I can measure it to know for sure. I’ll have to make my own chain adjuster bolts anyway since they’re missing. After completely removing the fly boom and verifying the integrity of the chain that’s left behind. Kinda spooky thinking that only one chain is what keeps that fly boom from slamming back into the main boom while it’s in the air.
2) I’ll see about getting some pics of the “controller”. It’s going to need to be completely rebuilt. It’s beyond busted and if you switch to upper controls the boom starts to sting out by itself.
3) I’ve got the valves laid out, swing, sting and drive on the left side if you’re standing facing the counterweight. Basket tilt, boom, and steer on the right. It’s the valve above both packages that has me stumped, by itself and a two-way valve. I guess hi-drive but I’ll figure out a way to prove it.
OFF
Senior Member
I guess it's a spare valve then. How about basket rotate? Some machines had it, others had fixed baskets.
Hi-drive was usually a single acting valve, not a double. With a machine as old as yours, anything is possible.
Hi-drive was usually a single acting valve, not a double. With a machine as old as yours, anything is possible.
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Boogered40f
New Member
It doesn’t have basket rotate, I’ll try to incorporate some type of electric basket rotator eventually. The mast that the basket sits on has been messed with so much, there’s no longer a slot for the bottom tube of the basket to engage with. Someone welded it in place, then probably had to remove the basket so they cut that section of the basket out. There’s been some real low intelligence modifications to this thing. When I get back out there on Saturday, I’ll verify the fly boom chain link size, hopefully it’s a #50 because I found a gate chain tensioner kit of the same size that would work. I’ll have to build a couple wooden gantries to hold up that boom section while I remove the fly boom.
As far as the hose carrier is concerned, I might just order a 1’ section of carrier from McMaster-carr and hopefully I can get those links to incorporate with the existing ones. It appears to be of similar design.
Mitzi man
New Member
Time I get on the forum Have had a little chat with Off to get manuals . Thank you for them. Friend said what you doing today. That led to coming home with a 40F 2wheel drive deuetz diesel engine.Have looked by the basket on the boom but not able to find a SN. Looking at the pictures of a 40F leads me to believe we have a 40F. Has Racine valves .When we 1st started we had rotate and boom up not down cause of wires tore out of the little soleniods. The other valve steer and basket level both work correctly. telescopes out but will not retract. The drive lift rotate valve leaked so bad that I removed it and replaced Orings and broken bolts on the spool spring ends. Disassembeled and rewired the small soleniods. Now have lost pressure to that valve. Reading thru the forum a couple of times ( packed full of good information) I discovered I was going down the wrong trail thinking the two side by side dump valves were for each of the dump valves. After figuring out I was on the wrong hyd schematic. Thanks to the picture Off had of the dump valve on his desk I now realise we have the Racine integrel dump valve. Jumpered that solenoid direct from the battery still no pressure . can push in the pin on end of the solenoid that does nothing also. Taken the solenoid off and jumped. Plunger will move but can easily be pushed back. Solenoid reads 3.5 OHMs. Is that in the acceptable range? As a starting point I believe there is a manual for this valve, would be in your debt if could get one. also a part # for the solenoid if thats the path you would suggest. Any thoughts on this would be much appreciated.
Mitzi man
New Member
Should also add that have checked and verified that ground is good and working. No clicking can be heard when applying battery power of 12+ volts.