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The JLG 40F Boom Lift Dilemma

Discussion in 'Other Construction/Demolition Equipment' started by od1, Sep 13, 2009.

  1. od1

    od1 Well-Known Member

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    I started talking about my JLG 40F in 3 other forums. I needed to post at least 3 times before I was allowed to post my own thread. Sorry for the inconvenience. Here are the issues. First JLG gives no support on the E or the F series. If you go to there Manual’s down load area they are not even listed. They do list some parts though. As for service they have not returned 1 of my phone calls. I did receive an email reply from them. It was a link to there dealer and service people. All of the places that were around me were rental places and only did in-house repairs on their own equipment. One place in VT said they would look at it but only when they had time. I asked him if he could tell me the hydraulic cable lengths from the boom back, as well as the size and type of hose needed. I also asked him about the cable length. He told me he had to look it up, and would give me a call back. He didn’t call me back. I know people are busy.

    Here are my problems.

    This 40F has been patched so many times. The wiring harness from the engine compartment half way up is original. It was then spliced with a similar type of cable (not a bad job). After that it was spliced with some 20 awg aluminum cable, then back to copper. Inside the panel half of it was bell wire. Insane!

    The hydraulic lines look to be original. Deep cracks etc. No leaks though.

    No brakes (maybe only needs pads)

    Only reverse. (If I move the joystick to forward it still goes in reverse.)

    I rebuilt the 3 joysticks. One of them had circuit board damage that I by passed. I switched them around to positions that I knew worked well and they all seem to work fine.


    Here’s what I am looking for.

    Wiring diagram
    Hydraulic Diagram
    What type of hydraulic line is needed and what manufacture do you think is best.
    What is the correct inside diameter of the hoses in the boom?
    What type of connectors do you think are best?
    Should the wiring and hydraulic lines be lightly tye-wraped some how?
    What is the thinnest hydraulic oil that can be used, and what brand do you recommend?
    Anything related to lubing. I see the zert fittings but what about the turret, and the booms?

    Please feel free to jump in. Any advice will be more than welcome.
    So many questions so little time.

    Thanks to all who had the patients to read through all of this.

    Thanks again OD1 od@intersat.cc
     
  2. willie59

    willie59 Super Moderator

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    Hey od1, good to see you started a thread about your machine. ;)

    Whew, talk about a ton of questions! This is going to take some time to noodle through. I'll start working on some of this and post back.

    And yes, JLG industries works through a dealer network. They don't provide support from a factory connection. I know your in Canada and it would be better if you could work with someone in your area/country, but since your getting crappy support so far, call these folks. I've been dealing with this company when it was a small family owned business called Aerial Service and Parts (ASAP). They were bought out by Best Line Equipment out of State College PA, but they retained some of the old ASAP employees. They are located in Shippensburg PA, not far from JLG Industries.

    http://www.bestlineinc.com/location_shippensburg.aspx

    Phone number is 888-321-3217. Talk to Eric. If he's not available, talk to Jeremy. Eric has been doing parts on JLG machines for years, he knows these machines. If he doesn't help you out I'll call the "damn yankee" and give him a southern tongue lashin'. :D
     
  3. od1

    od1 Well-Known Member

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    Ahh here's the thing. Yes I'm in Canada but I live a mile from the border. It's very remote here. It's easyer for me to get service (and cheaper), for parts etc. if I deal on the US side. I'm originally from Philly., PA., and lived in State Collage for awhile back in the 60's.
    I'll give them a try for sure.
     
  4. willie59

    willie59 Super Moderator

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    Give 'em a try...I've been ordering parts from Eric for years. Tell him Paul from ATCO Equipment told you to call.

    First of all, you asked in an earlier post in a different thread about the boom having a safety device on it. Yes, all critical cylinders on aerial lifts have holding valves that prevent a catastrophic failure that would drop the boom or the basket. I can't remember for sure on the F series, but most JLG's also have manual descent valves on the telescope and lift cylinders. For the boom lift, this would be a small diameter hose coming from the lift cylinder to the descent valves. Make sure this hose is in good condition. If the hose failed, the boom would drop, but at a controlled descent because it goes through a velocity fuse to control speed. But it's best not to let this hose fail if your machine is equipped with manual descent valves.

    Question about wiring. You mentioned the wiring harness/cable was original coming out of the lower control box, then it gets spliced. What about at the upper control box, is it original harness/cable going into control box?

    The brakes, remove those cover panels on the axle frames. You'll see the drive motors and brake assemblies. I just can't remember enough about the brakes to give you advice. I'm thinking they used the Ausco brakes, can't remember. But seems I remember they weren't that hard to service.

    Only reverse, LoL, Bertea valves (pronounced burr ta uh)! These are very smooth operating valve systems...but they are quirky as well, and operate very different from all other electric/hyd valves. Now, we could have a problem with patched wiring causing a problem with this one, so it's going to be hard to troubleshoot this one for sure. But assuming it's not a problem caused by faulty cable wiring, I assume you switched drive PQ controller with a controller of a funtion that is working properly and still have a problem with drive. If so, the problem is at the Bertea valve section for drive. It's a common problem with these machines. You either have a failed servo coil at the valve, or (and I've done this tons of times) disassemble components of drive valve, and yes, with it still mounted on machine. It's been years since I did this and can't remember what to tell you to disassemble, but I used to remove the guts of the suspect valve section, clean all parts with starting fluid, re-assemble, and voila, everythings happy. I have no idea what causes this, I only know it happens. Just be carefull taking it apart...I can't remember what's invloved and what's in there. Pay close attention to the components as you disassemble them.

    As for the oil, maybe someone here could tell you what the thinnest hyd oil is. Or, contact an oil supplier and ask them. I only know that the Bertea valves don't like heavy viscosity hyd oil, therefore, the thinner the oil (in Canadian weather) the better.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2009
  5. willie59

    willie59 Super Moderator

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  6. bigblueox

    bigblueox Senior Member

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    check out these guys. http://www.webequipment.com/ they supply us with all the parts we need. service dept is top notch. pretty sure they'll ship to you since they sent a few forklifts to panama.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2009
  7. willie59

    willie59 Super Moderator

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    Yep, Web Equipment is a good company to work with as well. ;)
     
  8. od1

    od1 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the info.
    I just emailed each of them asking about wiring diagrams, and hydraulic line and connectors. Hopefully one or both will come through. Right now I’m stuck and the weather will start changing fast here. I have work on this outside.
    I think I should have called this forum “Beating a Dead Horse”
     
  9. willie59

    willie59 Super Moderator

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    Yep, sounds like you need to replace the cables. I can't remember for sure on the 40F, but most JLG booms have 3 cables going to upper controls. The 16 gauge multi conductor cable, this is for the controls. Then the 12 gauge 4 conductor for power supply and foot switch. And the 12/3 for the 110 volt plug at the platform (if you choose to have one). And the proper cable is one made for constant flexing, like robotics or pendant cable. Standard rubber jacket cable, like SO or SJ spec, would work for a short time, but would fail long before proper cable because they aren't designed for constant flexing. And copper cable is getting spendy nowdays, but the last few machines I've done cable on, I purchased the cable from JLG. Believe it or not, their price was competitive with other sources. I guess JLG buys miles of the stuff to build their new machines so they probably get a good price when buying the cable.
     
  10. od1

    od1 Well-Known Member

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    I'm in the communications trade. I use miles of cable. If you ever need cable check with me first. The cable I'm using on the 40F is OLFLEX AUTO-116 awg Hi-Flex 600 volt ,25 numbered conductor. 6 bucks a foot. It's rated T1 which is the rating for tray usages. I can also get SAB cable Part # 07761625 also 16 awg 25 numbered T1. It's a little niecer and smaller in dia. 9 bucks a foot. SAB sells it for 19 bucks a foot.
     
  11. od1

    od1 Well-Known Member

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    I have 2 businesses here. We supply logs to mills both hard wood and soft wood. We market logs for log homes as well. We supply pulp wood to. The 40F is used for both of the businesses. The other is Satellite communications. This is our 27th year in that. The wood thing has been going on since 1977. We're right on the 45 parallel where NH, VT, and Quebec meet. The town I live near in VT has more moose than people.
     
  12. willie59

    willie59 Super Moderator

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    Cool.

    I see it's a TC spec. Tray Cable will work fine, but it's not as good as pendant type cable, but it sounds like you get it at such a good price that it's no great expense to change it. I think the Olflex has red or blue conductors with numbers, where the JLG cable is color coded. Your going to have to transpose from the JLG color codes - to numbered wires - then back color code to match the proper connections at upper and lower boxes, but you probably already considered that, eh? Any time I have to transpose from color to numbers, I always map it out on paper for each conductor, i.e., red (wire) = #101 (wire), black = #102, and so on. By doing this on paper first, you minimize mistakes when you begin the project. Also, you have a record of which # wire goes to what when you perform work on the machine in the future.
     
  13. od1

    od1 Well-Known Member

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    The wire braid on both are really fine. The cover's on both are really good as well.
    I'd map it out first for sure. Hopefully I'll find a diagram soon.
    Part of the original cable that came with the lift is still on it. These cables are an improvement over the originals for sure. The 110 volt cable is a good idea. I think I'll run some up there as well. Very good.
     
  14. willie59

    willie59 Super Moderator

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    I agree, about the cables, I think you'll be OK. The diagrams on these machines are getting hard to come by. They are way before we started putting diagrams on computers, we're talking diagrams in paper manuals here. I'm going to contact two sources tomorrow and see if I can get lucky and come up with a manual for the old 40. Can't promise anything...but it's worth a shot.
     
  15. od1

    od1 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, My fingers are crossed.

    Here's a new problem;

    I started up the lift (kicked over on the first try) and let it warm up. I took it up to maybe half height; the motor switched its self from full throttle to half throttle. The boom went up another couple feet and left me hanging. I tried to spin it around nothing. All I could do is tilt and turn the wheels. My son let me down by opening the 3 valves. But while I was up there I realized that the hydraulic lines run under there as well. My plan was to fully extend the booms and pull out the lines but I see once I start I won’t be able to get to some of the lines that way. Can anyone tell me how to do this on a step by step basses?
     
  16. willie59

    willie59 Super Moderator

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    I think I remember the 40F had the engine throttle wiring going through a mercury switch at the base of the main boom near the boom pivot pin. When the boom was raised above a certain elevation, the mercury switch would break the circuit for throttle and engine would go to idle. As for the lines as you called them; are you replacing cables or hoses, or both?
     
  17. od1

    od1 Well-Known Member

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    Very interesting about the mercury switch. I wondered how that worked. It always worked like that but leaving me hanging is a new one.
    I want to change both hydraulic and electrical lines. I’m going to also add a 110 line. There must be an order to it or a way it all could be done at the same time without repositioning the machine. I’m not sure. Does it have to be done in stages? If so what about hydraulic fluid loss, etc.
     
  18. willie59

    willie59 Super Moderator

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    The logic for the mercury switch was that JLG didn't want the engine in a high speed mode when the boom is elevated. They wanted things to work a little slower (safer) with the boom in the air.

    If your replacing both the hoses and cables, that's not too bad. Your going to need some plugs/caps for the hoses you take loose so you don't make a big mess. It's been years in my memory, but I'm thinking they are probably JIC flare fittings. Maybe #4 or #6. You need to have enough plugs/caps for each hose connection you take loose. The only tricky part is getting things through the carrier tube and power track (that's that big chain looking thing) above the upper boom.

    First thing, position the boom over the side of the main frame, fully extend the boom with basket just off of ground. Disconnect negative battery cable. Now your ready to disconnect. Start up at basket. Take a pair of cutters and cut the control cable and power cable about a foot outside where they go into the upper control box. Disconnect the hyd hoses. You should have 2 for basket rotate and 2 for basket level. Select a hose fitting to disconnect, let's say you choose the leveling cylinder, use a center punch and put a single mark on the nut of a hose fitting and a single mark on the fitting it's connected to. On the other hose for the leveling cylinder, put 2 punch marks. At the basket rotate motor, 3 punch marks on one hose and fitting, and 4 marks on the other. Your now ready to disconnect and plug/cap hoses and fittings.

    Your now ready to pull cable and hoses, but you need a good length of strong braided Nylon rope about 3/16" or 1/4" in diameter, put a single knot in the end of the rope. Place the rope alongside the end of one of the hyd hoses, 8 - 10" up the side of the hose, and strap the rope to the hose using electrical tape right up to the knot. Go back where the bend is in the power track and pull the cables and hoses out. The rope is now in place to pull new hoses and cables back through carrier tube. Pull hoses/cables out where power track is secured to main boom. Remove cover on side of main boom and remove hoses/cables. Cut the cables about a foot from their terminations at lower station just as you did at upper controls, pull the cables out. Now all you have left are the hoses to disconnect. Find the hose fitting you marked with a single punch mark, follow that hose to the fitting on the other end of that hose and put a single mark on that hose fitting and connection fitting. Do the same with the other 3 hoses. Your now ready to disconnect, plug, and cap, the hoses. Now you can take hoses to a hose shop and have proper replacements made, and you can measure your cable to get an idea of the cable length you need. Your hoses may be different lengths, so have the hose shop note and mark each hose they make with the appropriate matching punch mark of the old hose as they made them from.

    On re-install, start from the basket. Secure the rope to a hose. Secure the remaining hoses and cables to it. Have a helper slowly pull the bundle through the carrier tube while you feed the bundle from the basket end. Once the bundle comes out, pull entire lenth of cable and hoses. Connect hoses to fittings that match punch marks. Pull hoses fore or aft for proper sag/slack at platform before going into carrier tube.

    Now to set the cables. Remove the cord grips from that tail of cable you cut at the control box. Strip the rubber jacket from cable. Pull the strands of wire back through the cord grip fitting and let them hang out of the control box. Now you can strip the jacket of the new cable and set the cord grip on the new cable with enough stripped jacket to allow connections inside the terminal box. Once you get the cord grips set on the cables and adjust the proper sag/slack of the cables (as with the hoses), take a tie strap and secure hose/cable bundle so it wont' move. Pull hoses/cable taught where they come out of the power track. Now you can finish installing hoses and cable through power track and down the side of the boom. I think you pretty much have the idea for the rest of it.

    Now your ready for wiring connections, and it's where it may get messy as you described quite a butcher job on the wiring. Ordinarily, the proper color coded wire is going to its proper terminal. Take the lower control box. Let's say the black wire of the power cable (12/4 cable) goes to terminal #1 in the lower box. You simply remove the old black wire, and cut/install the new black wire, working your way through each colored wire. It's going to get a little more interesting with the Olflex cable, being it's the same color wire with numbers on the wires strands. This is where your going to have to make a transpose list from colors to numbers.

    Well, that's pretty much it. That should keep you busy for a little while.
     
  19. od1

    od1 Well-Known Member

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    Man that was perfect. I think I have it. I'm going to print this out. Someone got back to me from Best Line Equipment. They needed some more info on the machine serial # valves, etc. If it stops poring out I’ll be able to get that info. to them today.
    Thanks so much for your help so far. I really mean that. Talk with you soon.
     
  20. od1

    od1 Well-Known Member

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    This is what Web Equipment said,

    I am sorry but JLG no longer supports many parts for the 40F.
    The wiring diagram is no longer available as are the hoses.
    The parts book does not specify length or fittings.
    Your best bet would be to have them made locally.

    Thank you,
    Stacy Barlow
    WEB Equipment, Inc.