Snow Removal Question

[grandpa]

I don't think the back end is kicking out,,,, when putting that kind of down pressure as he is, you have no weight on the front axle,,,, if you look close he's using his roll back feature to grab some steering ability from time to time

 

[BrianHay]

Nope, the back end isn't kicking out much. He corrects it quick when it tries too ....which is kind of my point, he is not struggling to hold a straight line.

I know with your experience I don't need to tell you, but for those that don't know. The articulation on a grader serves greater purposes than just giving a tighter turning radius when needed. When used properly it will also help you hold a straight line in a heavy cut with minimal traction or help keep you on a slope you would normally slide off of with the machine squared just to name a couple.

 

[Grader4me]

Grader4me.... Less bounce eh! Sweet I like it. I'm all other that like a fat kid on a smartie!! now is that some articulation or all the way?

Lol...close to full aticutlation most times..

That is a good thought about the level of the blade Steve. But the front wheels move up and down independently to the rest of the machine (to a point). So in this situation would have little or no effect at all on the blade.

Well...I will have to disagree with you. When you ride a windrow with your front tire the grader will bounce on the front end..which will cause your moldboard to bounce. In this situation its no big deal as he was applying a lot of pressure. If you was fine grading and rode your windrow...ouch

I really don't think he would have had any problem with traction etc. if he would have kept the grader straight with the toe next to the curb. He still would have had lots of visibilty of the toe through the bottom window. Not picking apart his work as he got the job done. Just goes back to the original question thats all.

 

[BrianHay]

Traction may have been less of an issue if he were working his way down the hill instead of up it. Don't know why he would work up the hill but he likely had his reasons.

Can you explain in more detail what you mean about keeping straight with the toe next to the curb and how it helps with traction? I don't think I understand what you mean....you're not suggesting to use the curb as a bump stop?

Here is part two of that video http://youtu.be/OGzOs4JgmaE He reaches the top, straightens out and starts blading down the other side. You can see, especially near the end that it is taking more effort to keep moving in a straight line with the grader squared than it did with it articulated.

 

[Grader4me]

Can you explain in more detail what you mean about keeping straight with the toe next to the curb and how it helps with traction? I don't think I understand what you mean....you're not suggesting to use the curb as a bump stop?

Keep the grader straight..toe next to the curb..(not bumping on the curb but you want to cut the ice as close to it as you can)and not ride the windrow(there was room for his front tire between the curb and windrow)..he is losing traction on the front wheel drive mauling through the snow/ice. If he has problem with traction/steering lighten up on the load a bit. In the second video notice when he lightens up on the load steering ability/traction comes back. When you bulldog like that it makes it very hard to control steering and your spinning and jumping all over the place.

 

[grandpa]

God it pains me to agree with you Grader4me........

 

[grandpa]

A better explanation............. by the amount of snow on the ground there , He's just prolly finishing up on a twenty hour shift and really don't give a da*n where his front axle is.... bwah ha ha

 

[Grader4me]

God it pains me to agree with you Grader4me........

LOL...I bet it does...

 

[770G]

LOL!!!!!!!!! at grandpa, too funny.

 

[ovrszd]

I know with your experience I don't need to tell you, but for those that don't know. The articulation on a grader serves greater purposes than just giving a tighter turning radius when needed. When used properly it will also help you hold a straight line in a heavy cut with minimal traction or help keep you on a slope you would normally slide off of with the machine squared just to name a couple.

I totally agree. I run one hand controls. Blade lift levers are the outside two on the right side, levers positioned back and almost touching. The next lever in, and also back is the articulation. I place the two lift levers in my palm and my thumb rests on the articulation. I am constantly adjusting articulation. Tried to find a good picture but couldn't. I can take one if someone needs it for visual aid.

My Brother runs a 670D. We converted it to one hand lift but he left his articulation lever forward. He has to let go of the blade lift levers to adjust articulation. Totally sucks to me, but hey, he's my older Brother.... :tong

 

[ovrszd]

A better explanation............. by the amount of snow on the ground there , He's just prolly finishing up on a twenty hour shift and really don't give a da*n where his front axle is.... bwah ha ha

Yeah I think you are probably right. We've all been there....

 

[BrianHay]

Keep the grader straight..toe next to the curb..(not bumping on the curb but you want to cut the ice as close to it as you can)and not ride the windrow(there was room for his front tire between the curb and windrow)..he is losing traction on the front wheel drive mauling through the snow/ice. If he has problem with traction/steering lighten up on the load a bit. In the second video notice when he lightens up on the load steering ability/traction comes back. When you bulldog like that it makes it very hard to control steering and your spinning and jumping all over the place.

I respectfully disagree. There is no doubt that it is easier to steer if you lighten your load but you can also gain control and continue to take a healthy cut if you articulate. I don't see him spinning or jumping all over the place, he appears to have good control. I see him using every option and resource available to him to work his machine to it's full potential. If he lightened his load he would have to make at least one more pass and would have the ice he is busting out under his drive wheels instead of in front of his blade which of course is not to good for traction ether.

If his front wheels where not powered (it is all wheel drive) then plowing them through the windrow would slow him down. But they are powered and not plowing. They are digging and helping to pull him along. I know any time I am on ice, be it doing snow removal or pulling sleigh trains, if I can get a drive wheel off the ice and into the snow it makes a world of difference and every little bit helps.

 

[Grader4me]

lol...if everyone agreed it wouldn't be any fun would it?....gee..I only have 30 years of experience so what would I know?,,lol

 

[grandpa]

Couple comments, First I don't see any ice in the video,,, I do see snowpac, which here in Minnesota is a lot different than what we call Ice. Second is can someone honestly explain to me how loose snow piled up has more traction? Think about it. If that was the case then why do we spend so much money to push and haul it away,,, honestly.

 

[Grader4me]

First of all...I'm not running this operator down..as said, he got the job done. Yes, articulation aids in steering and control under heavy load in some situations. I stand by my statement about riding a windrow with the front tire, be it snow/ice/gravel/whatever. In the past I have cut ice/snowpack next to the curb many, many times. I have worked ice holes where vehicles..trucks included couldn't get through. During all of these countless times I have quite successfully kept my grader under control and got the job done...if I was taking to much..I would lighten up on the load and make another pass or maybe two..or three..whatever it took. Have I run the tire on a windrow? well.. sure I have..who hasn't? its not a perfect world and operators make mistakes..part of learning.

And yes..of course you go where you can find the most traction...every situation can be different and each approach can be different..welcome to graderland...lol

 

[BrianHay]

Second is can someone honestly explain to me how loose snow piled up has more traction? Think about it. If that was the case then why do we spend so much money to push and haul it away,,, honestly.

I'm not sure if I can explain to you how it gives more traction. I kind of thought it was common knowledge among operators who work in the winter.....or even people who drive in the winter. Hard packed snow is very much the same as ice when it comes to traction.....cumming up to a stop sign before the roads have been cleared. Will you stop easier in the well packed down/shinned up track everyone has been driving in or do you stop easier if you straddle everyone else's track and put your tires in the fresh loose stuff? A truck driver pulling a snow covered hill. Will he make it up easier if he stays on the packed down path everyone drives in or will he have a better chance if he has room to straddle those tracks and blaze his own trail?

 

[BDFT]

Every trucker I've ever met will stay in the tracks. Guaranteed spin out in the loose snow.

 

[Grader4me]

Couple comments, First I don't see any ice in the video,,, I do see snowpac, which here in Minnesota is a lot different than what we call Ice. Second is can someone honestly explain to me how loose snow piled up has more traction? Think about it. If that was the case then why do we spend so much money to push and haul it away,,, honestly.

God it pains me to agree with you Grandpa...lol

 

[BrianHay]

... :lmao ...... :falldownlaugh

 

[bigshow]

Not that my opinion matters, but I do however agree with Mr. Hay, compacted snow is essentially ice. Look up the coefficient of traction for snow and ice in the Caterpillar production handbook and I think you will be surprised, as I do not have it here at home but I do believe ice is 45%, I may be wrong as it has been awhile. And you are right as for truckers staying in the tracks, God forbid if you ever got a trucker out of the pre-existing tracks, they'd get lost with out them. Plus the only thing dumber than one trucker is two, and truckers are the second smartest people in the world, second to everyone else....