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Skidders- Tracks ot Tires, Lines or Grapples- Lets see what you've got!

fitzpatrick

Well-Known Member
Heh, Heh! LOL

Yup, a young fella could get rich with that old blister. Set of chains, mainline and chokers and an account at the fuel bulk plant and stand back! A good supply of wood or a reliable employer is needed as well.

I like the attention paid to the exhaust system. Looks good. Needs a couple of solid side covers to keep the mud and jill pokes out and the log kicker cables put back on the blade and probably not a lot more.

Got a question: Why is it that a 53 series Jimmy will wear out to the point where ether is needed to start it in the summer but this worn out engine will never quit? After 20 minutes of smoke signals it settles down like it was new. If it will only wear down to a certain degree, as in worn out, why does it wear down at all? Am I missing something here?
 

fitzpatrick

Well-Known Member
Hi winterax:

No I don't know a Tom White. What did he do and where? Did you ever meet any of the Surette tribe? Worked with a few of them at Weldwood. Great people. Think of them often.

I worked a season with Weldwood, out of Searchmont, falling, and a few times for Pick Timber on the ACR as a truck driver. Pick would fire me about twice a year but were so desperate for help I was always called back. Eventually, either I became more employable or they adjusted their expectations. Not sure which. Just came across a photo of a truck I drove for Pick back in '65 or so. US Army 6x6 with a Prentice loader behind the cab. They threw away the gas engine and put in a 6 cyl. Cat. Lots of power. Real tough roads, just used two gears in low range, 3rd and 4th. Good unit.
 

winterax

Active Member
He ran a small company that logged in the Agawa Canyon ( late 50's early 60's ? ), everything was brought in and out on the Algoma Railway. Had him as an instructer at Soo College in the late seventies, probably the best teacher I ever had. He was the only one that could keep the lecture hall full on a Friday afternoon even with the $0.25 cent draft at the Purple Lantern :)
 

fitzpatrick

Well-Known Member
The only times I was actually stopped at Agawa Canyon was when our car, the car reserved for loggers, which was the last car on the train, was cut off and sided because we were too drunk and rowdy. The next day our car was hooked up again and we continued on our, by then, not so merry way.

What did Mr. White teach at the college? From logging to professor? Interesting guy. Did Gerry McGuire teach at the college? He's a school chum of mine. The purple Lantern. Oh boy. I dare not say more. Try to explain to people today that $2.00 was enough for a good time at the pub back then. That was a half hours work then for 8 beer. Bigger glasses as well! Good memories.
 

075

Senior Member
fitzpatrick This ones rusty enough ,yours?
 

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furpo

Senior Member
Got a question: Why is it that a 53 series Jimmy will wear out to the point where ether is needed to start it in the summer but this worn out engine will never quit? After 20 minutes of smoke signals it settles down like it was new. If it will only wear down to a certain degree, as in worn out, why does it wear down at all? Am I missing something here?

Generally the poor starting is to do with the blower wearing out and not being able to provide enough boost on turn over to get the fuel to fire.

I have to agree with you that the Clark was/is a well thought out skidder. Only ever had a couple of problems with the old mans 668. It did a couple of blower drive shafts, the brakes never gave trouble after being converted to air, the winch pinion brake piston wore out, usual drive shaft universal failures and the trans was getting sad. Not bad for 20 years.
 

fitzpatrick

Well-Known Member
Hi Skadill: Yeah that old FMC looks like it was low on tranny oil or had charge pump issues. I base this on the way it was kinda jerky and slow even if it was in 1st gear. Also the engine was hunting a bit as the load varied.

I left one sit for 4 years one time but it was in good shape when I parked it. I gave it a tiny sniff of ether as I figured that if it didn't flash up on the first rev or two of the crank the battery, which was a new CAT battery when I parked it would not have enough poop. I had a Hi-tork starter on the engine and it did start but only just. Big grin. I might add the engine was fairly low time and was a quality rebuild. New type gaskets, pistons and liners. Never leaked oil, barely smoked on start up. I never met any two Jimmys that were the same.
 

fitzpatrick

Well-Known Member
Generally the poor starting is to do with the blower wearing out and not being able to provide enough boost on turn over to get the fuel to fire.

I have to agree with you that the Clark was/is a well thought out skidder. Only ever had a couple of problems with the old mans 668. It did a couple of blower drive shafts, the brakes never gave trouble after being converted to air, the winch pinion brake piston wore out, usual drive shaft universal failures and the trans was getting sad. Not bad for 20 years.

Hi furpo: Thanks for that about the blower losing its wind. Makes sense. Most FMC have a hole torched in the dash to get at the blower shaft. Splines usually go.

So on the 668 you converted to air brakes. Did you put an air pot on the brake actuator lever, or are there discs on the drive line and the pot is hooked to the master cylinder? An air compressor would be required as well. I found the Clark brakes fairly easy to apply. Air applied brakes on the FMC would have been great as the foot pedal was nearly useless since one's knees were up around one's ears when operating, but I just pulled back on both steering levers, using the immovable foot brake brake pedal a foot rest. which is what most would do I speculate.

I switched to synthetic grease on U-joints when the joint failed on either a Clark skidder or FMC. Used red Loc-Tite on cleaned caps and bolts. Pre charged the cross and caps before install. Then I greased only two pumps on the gun or until I felt slight resistance so the seals didn't blow and I greased only after 500 hours as the u-joint maker stipulated. Apparently frequent greasing is not good on u-joints that have good grease and seals. I was skeptical at first but this proved to be true. I used to spot weld the caps to the FMC double joints that power up the finals. If the joints never got loose, they didn't fail. A touch of grinder and off they come.

I believe the 668 tranny is the same type as the FMC but with the converter separate from the tranny? Is it a four speed like the FMC? I found these straight forward to repair and not real pricey. Usually O-rings, second gear clutch pack, a new charge pump and not much else. The pick-up screen could be an issue but really shouldn't be unless the filter disintegrated. BTW I dumped the ATF fluid for 10-30 high detergent engine oil. The FMC manual for the Clark tranny stated this was allowed as long as temperatures were not extremely low. I speculate your climate temp. range will be quite temperate like here. The convertor locked up quicker for more response. I had two convertor failures on the FMC but none after this change of oil.

Send a pic or two of your logging adventures. Our long wet winter is just starting. I'll need a smile or two.
 

fitzpatrick

Well-Known Member
Hi 075:

No that's not my FMC. LOL! The gimped road wheels were my first clue. I did a couple of pondage contracts on the Revelstoke Dam and the mica in the soil there just evaporated the road wheels. The only worn part was the narrow width of the wheel where it contacted the track. I remember buying them by the pallet load! Had brush rakes on the FMCs after we logged off the contract area. I couldn't afford the cost of the road wheels, surprise, surprise, so I had a machine shop roll some 1" thick T-1 by 2.25" wide bands and welded these to the road wheels. No more road wheel problems. EVER!

I see that machine has the earlier blade ram end. They would strip the cap threads if the blade was put down all the way and contacted an immovable object. A daily occurrence it seemed. Later units had a really crude, cheaply made 4 bolt cap but it didn't fail. It also has the older type track which was lighter than the later cast pads. I figure this machine to be a mid to late 70's unit. If running gear was affordable, that old soldier would pulling wood again. The inside running gear was strong and not too pricey to repair.

The cast pads were thicker and less easily bent but the bushings were still the problem. I schemed up a pad design that would greatly increase bushing life with no real cost to pad manufacture but couldn't get the dealer interested. I'm sure he had bigger fish to fry. The design change was simply an extra grouser at the back of the pad which would come up against the front grouser on the adjacent pad when the pads were being negatively flexed beyond the design limits of the rubber bushings.

All was fine, sort of, with the bushings as long as the pads weren't being flexed severely in the opposite direction of flex that would be experienced as the track went around the sprockets and idlers. Like when the track is being tortured when passing over a small high stump which pushes the pad hinge too far the other way when between the road wheels. Presto! The bushing rubber begins to tear loose from the steel core the bushing rubber is vulcanized to. Well, that's my theory and I'm sticking to it.

I did a power line contract at Port Hardy in '77. I'm just now digging thru old pics. I'll get a few on this forum one day. Is the Sea Gate Pub still standing? If drunks attracted lightning that place would have burned decades ago. A fight broke out, not unusual for that place, but nobody was getting hurt so the bartender was letting them tire themselves out. Well anyway, the cops showed up somehow. Eventually the combatants were cuffed and loaded into the cop car. Oh well, we thought there goes the entertainment. But no, there was more to come. Suddenly the doors burst open and in come the cops. Mad as hornets. The usual thing. One cop was bellowing about somebody letting the air out of a tire on the cop car and wanted that person to come forward. LOL! Well that went over big. Lots of laffs. So anyway, I went outside to see a cop actually doing some work as in changing a tire. But not to be. The tow truck showed up and pulled the cop car complete with cops and the boozy brawlers sitting inside to the cop shop. I figured that was illegal but I didn't bother pursuing the matter.

Today there would have been a gun fight, several dead. Where have all the men gone? It's no wonder women are buying strap-ons.
 

winterax

Active Member
The only times I was actually stopped at Agawa Canyon was when our car, the car reserved for loggers, which was the last car on the train, was cut off and sided because we were too drunk and rowdy. The next day our car was hooked up again and we continued on our, by then, not so merry way.

What did Mr. White teach at the college? From logging to professor? Interesting guy. Did Gerry McGuire teach at the college? He's a school chum of mine. The purple Lantern. Oh boy. I dare not say more. Try to explain to people today that $2.00 was enough for a good time at the pub back then. That was a half hours work then for 8 beer. Bigger glasses as well! Good memories.
He taught a forest harvesting course. How to identify all the parts on a skidder, cat, log trucks, loaders etc. (so you didn't look a total idiot on your first job ), block and road layout, scheduling concerns, logging safety,supervision, camp life that sort of stuff. Very good guy. Had a true life storey to back things up.
Gerry Mcquire sure rings a bell, but not quite loud enough lol.
 

furpo

Senior Member
Fitzpatrick;

668C so internal brakes not disks. Yes correct, brake pot on the actuation lever. No need to ever blead brakes, change fluid, replace master or slave cylinder, etc.

Interesting what you say about the universals. Most modern stuff is mantanace free now. The 668 had done a lot of work by the end of its life with little UJ trouble until the end. Just worn out. The trans was 3 speed forward and reverse.

Will dig some photos out. Ive posted a few pictures of the Madill 120 I operate in the madill thread. Im on the transporter tommorow morning so will get a few more. We are just comming out of our long winter so smiles all round. First puff of dust yesterday.
 

fitzpatrick

Well-Known Member
Hi furpo: Thanks for the up date on your 668 brakes. I like your solution to not having to remove the brake unit from the back of the tranny just to replace a few o-rings mostly due to brake fluid being used in the master cyl and not ATF.

I heard of an FMC rigged up with air pots on the steering. Just a small lever like in a Clark skidder at right side of seat and of course a system for creating air pressure.

Have a good season. "First puff of dust" I've heard of that stuff. Send a pic.
 

skadill

Senior Member
Skidding a Log

First Year for Dad and I with our new to us Cat D7F.We added an arch soon after.This was a younger skadill 21 years ago.27' fir log
 

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fitzpatrick

Well-Known Member
Hi Skadill:

Nice log. Peeler length. I hope there was no ring shake. An arch would definitely make skidding easier. Not to mention keeping the jaggers off the chokers or mainline.

Did you fab up your own arch or did you get a genuine Cat type?
 

skadill

Senior Member
Hi Skadill:

Nice log. Peeler length. I hope there was no ring shake. An arch would definitely make skidding easier. Not to mention keeping the jaggers off the chokers or mainline.

Did you fab up your own arch or did you get a genuine Cat type?

I welded an arch off a 540B model JD onto it,will find a pic and post it.
 
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