Road ranger question, trouble changing from high range to low range

[Hendrik]

I followed the air lines from my stick today and unbolted what I thought was the cylinder as discussed above. In hindsight I'm not sure that it was.

I reread mitch's post and went looking for the filter. couldn't undo that because I don't own a spanner large enough, went to buy one, couldn't find one in several shops but did get a jumbo spanner set ordered in. hopefully that will arrive tomorrow and I'll have another crack at it...

You did read through the roadranger publications? http://www.roadranger.com/ecm/group...roadranger/documents/content/rr_trsm-0515.pdf
The system works on a relay principle, rather than having big airlines and a huge range shifter in the cab, they run small air lines into the cab, these air lines go to a slave valve (which is like a relay) on the side of the box, from this slave valve big air lines go to the range cylinder on the back of the box, page 4 has a nice picture. Note there is an air filter which could be partially blocked.
For the 13 speed this is the manual http://www.roadranger.com/ecm/group...roadranger/documents/content/rr_trsm-0430.pdf

 

[Hendrik]

I also know that when done properly, with the engine speed matched BEFORE trying to stab the gearshift, you can do it for many years without using the clutch.

I believe all the manufacturers recommend using the clutch in order to keep the idiots from damaging them during the warranty period. It gives them a basis to deny the claims. For me, as long as I can climb behind the wheel, the clutch is what you use to get rolling, then leave it alone.

Of course the makers will not condone non clutch use shifting but most drivers do it and I don't see a huge pile of blown RR boxes sitting next to the average truck repair place.
Sure if you don't know what you are doing use the clutch but with experience comes the ability to shift smoothly without clutch.
Also you can shift quicker without clutch. That's the problem I am having, trying to shift too quick with using a clutch, doesn't help either having driven a small Japanese type synchro box for the last three years.

 

[mitch504]

Just a small point, there are no synchronizers any where except in the range shift and splitter.
When you are moving the shifter in either of these trannys, it is totally unsynchronized.

 

[buckfever]

I was taught you only use the the clutch to stop and start. Once you learn to drive this way using the clutch makes you look like a amature.

 

[06Pete]

My experiance with a 613 is in a IH 1900 with a DT466 you have 3 deep reduction gears then 5 in each low and high range. Not your typical 13 spd with a spliter in high range. They are great trans as you have the road gears of a 10 spd and deep reduction like a 8LL. I have had problems with the shift knob mine is the old style round metal knob about 3 inches round with the air shifter inside the knob. I have had O-rings blow and also dirt and oil builds up in the knob and makes it not work right. If you unscrew the three screws on the bottom of the knob you can take it apart and clean and instal a new O-ring and that normaly fixes it just be carefule as there is a spring and a few parts in there you need to be ready to catch as the last screw comes out. Good luck!

 

[Hendrik]

I was taught you only use the the clutch to stop and start. Once you learn to drive this way using the clutch makes you look like a amature.

No you use the brakes to stop

 

[Plant Fitter]

Because I am soft and my leg gets sore.
Far as I know, no synchros involved in a full shift, the RR don't seem to mind and plenty of drivers have got a million k's out of them without using the clutch.
However I am always willing to learn and if you have got good reasons as to why the clutch should be used, I am all ears, the downside of using the clutch is that you wear the clutch out quicker.

There are no syncros on a roadranger gearshift, just a sliding dog clutch to engage the gear with the shaft, the only way to get it to engage is to have the transmission input shaft and output shaft turning at the correct speeds. When you are moving the output shaft is turning, with no gear engaged it is being turned by the vehicles driveline. The engine is also turning, at whatever speed you decide it should be. If the two are turning at the exact correct speeds, you can slide it into gear. If you get it wrong, the momentum of the vehicle has to try to alter the speed of the engine, with the sliding dog clutch being caught grinding in the middle. If however, you have the clutch disengaged, the momentum of the vehicle only has to alter the speed of the input shaft and clutch plates, which is a lot easier on the sliding dog clutch.

I have heard of a warranty claim across a fleet of trucks that got rejected, Eaton told the company tell your drivers to use the clutch.

The auto shift manual transmissions were developed to overcome drivers who can't get it right.

As for increased clutch wear, I doubt that it would be all that excessive. Even if they wear out faster they are cheaper and easier to replace than the dog clutches in the transmission.

If you can get it exactly perfect 100% of the time, go for it. I have been exposed to a lot of drivers who can't. Some of them shouldn't even be allowed to drive a truck actually.

 

[Nick009]

Well I've attached photos of the knob, and two views of the back of the box.

I put it into what I think is deep reduction today and there appears to be 5 forward gears there and one reverse. The only time i've really used it is backing into narrow driveways to reduced the vehicle speed.


The ugly bastardised bit is the clutch brake, its held on with a hose clamp


This is the left side if the tranny looking from the back, I think thats the filter up top there...


the right side, that top bit is the bit I mistakenly took the bolts out of...

 

[Plant Fitter]

These are your air cylinders.

 

[Plant Fitter]

Well I've attached photos of the knob, and two views of the back of the box.

I put it into what I think is deep reduction today and there appears to be 5 forward gears there and one reverse. The only time i've really used it is backing into narrow driveways to reduced the vehicle speed.

View attachment 94438
The ugly bastardised bit is the clutch brake, its held on with a hose clamp

I would have thought that if it is a 13 speed, the larger black switch on the front is the range change, the smaller blue switch on the side is a splitter. Go through the 5 gears in low range, then into the 4 gears of high range. Each gear in high range can be split with the splitter, giving each a half gear, making 8 gears in high range. So 5 gears in low, 8 gears in high equalls 13 gears. When lightly loaded you won't have to bother using the splitter.

This is my understanding, but anyone who is more familiar can feel free to correct me on this. I am not a full time driver.

 

[Nick009]

the blue knob on the side won't go forward when the black knob is up. ie when its in high range the blue know won't budge.

This is just sitting with the engine off, stick in neutral. could it be different when in motion?

 

[Plant Fitter]

Well maybe I have it wrong. Sorry if I do. Thats how a 13 speed works that I drive sometimes. Someone else will have more idea. Anyone feel free to correct me.

There is also the possibility that you have the wrong gear knob for the transmission if it has been replaced at some stage.

 

[Nick009]

I think it is not the original transmission. The guy I bought it from said he got a s/h box at some stage in the last 3 years.... also it looks like it has had a few coats of paint which I imagine would only be done when its out of the truck.

also I'm still thinking maybe its a 15spd I'm fairly certain there are 5 gears in the deep reduction, 5 in low and 5 in high... actually I have only used 4 of them in high...

 

[Plant Fitter]

also I'm still thinking maybe its a 15spd I'm fairly certain there are 5 gears in the deep reduction, 5 in low and 5 in high... actually I have only used 4 of them in high...

The numbers on the model plate made me think that it was a 13 speed.

 

[Nick009]

if there were only 3 deep reduction gears, what would happen when you put the stick into the two slots that don't have gears? I had drive in all 5 slots...

 

[tireman]

A 13 speed has a red splitter button. Blue button indicates deep reduction, as they are only on an 8LL and a 15 speed.If the splitter is grey and there is a high/low range selector it is an 18 speed. Grey splitter w/o high/low selector is a super 10. It baffles me how folks get these confused. I will have to say, however, that is the first finger operated clutch brake I've ever seen and I've been in and around trucks my entire life(I'm 42).

 

[Plant Fitter]

if there were only 3 deep reduction gears, what would happen when you put the stick into the two slots that don't have gears? I had drive in all 5 slots...

There would still be gears in all 5 slots, however you just don't use them all, as the ratios are not spaced in order, meaning that if you did use them all by the time you go to change up into the next range you would be going too fast to use the first gear in the next range.

 

[Plant Fitter]

It baffles me how folks get these confused.

I got it confused because of the 13 on the model plate. Is it possible that the gear knob is the wrong one for the transmission?

 

[mitch504]

Tireman, what you are saying is true for modern trucks, if they are still set up like they left the factory. This is an old time 13-speed, not shifted at all like a modern 13. We know this is not the original transmission for this truck, but it may well be the original shifter.

Most of these transmissions had a round, chrome, shift knob w/ a 3 position knob on the side. It was labeled low, dir, high. I didn't know until I researched this that some of the last of these were shipped w/ this type of knob.

The correct shift pattern is 1,2,3 in low (deep reduction), then shift like a 10 speed. The reason that 4 and 5 in low are not used is because they overlap gears in direct, as Plant Fitter said.

Just out of curiosity, what year is this truck? These transmissions were popular in the '60s and early '70s. This is definitely an early one due to the type of filter/regulator used.

on edit: BTW, that kind of clutch brake isn't on the input shaft like most. It is mounted to the unused PTO port, and when you mash the button, it presses a soft piston against the PTO gear to slow the front section of the trans.

 

[Nick009]

its a 1980 Mitch...thanks for all the info. So now we know what we have here, is cleaning that filter/cylinder still my best for getting it to shift from high to low range?