Road ranger question, trouble changing from high range to low range

[JDOFMEMI]

Any roadrangers that I have driven, you change gears at 1500 rpm, which works fine if you have an engine which has plenty of power at relatively low rpm. How does a 3208 perform with a roadranger? Really to get any sense out of a 3208 you have to be running between about 1800rpm and 2500rpm. Does that make it hard to change gears? How do you do it? Do you have to run a gear to say 2500rpm and then when you change rev it up to 2000rpm to get the next gear?

I have one in a service truck behind a 3208. It shifts just fine, and I keep it limited to under 2300 r's.

A trans that drops 500 rpm at 1500 between gears will drop a bit over 700 at 2300. This keeps you where you need to be.

 

[Hendrik]

The only problem w/ using the deep reduction as an alternative to low range is that you have to go into low range before you can get into the deep gears.

I wasn't sure about that, as I have never tried skipping low range, so what happens if you inadvertently try to get into deep whilst the box is still in high? Will it just refuse to shift the range or is there the possibility of expensive noises occuring?

 

[Hendrik]

LN8000 with Cat 3208 goes 80km/hr @ about 2400 rpm. LNT8000 is probably similar. 30 years ago, a lot of people were happy going that fast. LNT9000's go a bit faster.

You're probably aware that WA is a big place and doing 80 on a long haul would suck, however yeah in a tipper situation doing local work 80 would be OK.
Guess in 1st deep it would be barely moving.

 

[Hendrik]

The cylinder is on the back of tranny.Round has 4 bolts if I remember right.I used a spray cleaner and fine emory cloth.Piston has O ring that can be changed.Cheap fix if this is the problem.
You might want to get some one to show you where this cylinder is.Hard to explain on here.

http://www.roadranger.com/ecm/group...roadranger/documents/content/rr_trsm-0515.pdf
Hang on this is for the 15 speeds I think http://www.roadranger.com/ecm/group...roadranger/documents/content/rr_trsm-0525.pdf
Loads of info on the Eaton site.
And if you are not sick of reading http://www.wellertruck.com/pdf/tsupp/EatonTS/Lightning Troubleshooting.pdf

 

[Nick009]

Thanks for the link Hendrik, this was taken from the 15spd operators manual.

CAUTION: Never move the Deep Reduction Lever/Button to the "IN"/ FORWARD position with the Range Preselection Lever UP in the HI Range position OR at any time while the transmission is operating in HI Range.

I got out there for a little bit yesterday and did that check that Mitch suggested for the air shift system. Air tanks full, engine off, stick in neutral. Moving the high/low range selector it doesn't seem to be very quick or crisp. there is a slight hiss of air then it kind of clunks both ways. Also when I shift the deep reduction selector when I put it in there is an audible air leak in the cab, I didn't find the exact location of it yet.

I going to try and clean that air cylinder today.

 

[Hendrik]

Any roadrangers that I have driven, you change gears at 1500 rpm, which works fine if you have an engine which has plenty of power at relatively low rpm. How does a 3208 perform with a roadranger? Really to get any sense out of a 3208 you have to be running between about 1800rpm and 2500rpm. Does that make it hard to change gears? How do you do it? Do you have to run a gear to say 2500rpm and then when you change rev it up to 2000rpm to get the next gear?

Deciding when to change cogs depends on various factors, like engine size/HP/torque, load, gradient, type of engine, etc.
Modern electrically controlled engine develop a huge amount of torque at 1200rpm, so you can get away with shifting at low revs, something which I have hard time adapting to, however old mechanical injection engines tend to drop off below 1500rpm. so the shift range is between 1500-2000rpm. The only time you really wanna go over 2000 is if you are pulling uphill and don't have a lot of gears to choose from, in other words you go to maximum revs but still want to get into the next gear at 1500 because of the forward momentum being washed off. However with splitters it makes life a lot easier.

 

[Hendrik]

Thanks for the link Hendrik, this was taken from the 15spd operators manual.

CAUTION: Never move the Deep Reduction Lever/Button to the "IN"/ FORWARD position with the Range Preselection Lever UP in the HI Range position OR at any time while the transmission is operating in HI Range.

I got out there for a little bit yesterday and did that check that Mitch suggested for the air shift system. Air tanks full, engine off, stick in neutral. Moving the high/low range selector it doesn't seem to be very quick or crisp. there is a slight hiss of air then it kind of clunks both ways. Also when I shift the deep reduction selector when I put it in there is an audible air leak in the cab, I didn't find the exact location of it yet.

I going to try and clean that air cylinder today.

Yeah but Eaton also tell you not to shift without using the clutch and never ever use the hidden gear.
Seriously though, by the sounds of it you have a sticky/leaky piston somewhere, as the range shift should be almost instantaneous.
It might also pay to change the gearbox oil and check if there are any nasties floating around in there. If you check the oil and it is all good then you can be just about guaranteed that the problem is with the range selector system and not a worn synchro.

 

[Nick009]

Which oil do you use in yours Hendrik? I use mostly castrol oils and they recommend CASTROL TFC 450.

Any thoughts?

 

[Hendrik]

It would appear that you can get oil designed for the box http://www.oilman.com.au/transmission-oils/road-ranger-50/ http://www.hi-tecoils.com.au/?p=1058
Eaton recommends synthetic http://www.roadranger.com/rr/ProductsServices/ProductsbyCategory/Lubricants/index.htm
http://www.myshopping.com.au/ZM--12...LTR_FULL_SYNTHETIC_ROAD_RANGER_OIL_SAE50_GL_1 but the price is not worthwhile for an old dumpy
Castrol TFC 450 appears to be for automatic transmissions?

 

[Hendrik]

It would appear that you can get oil designed for the box http://www.oilman.com.au/transmission-oils/road-ranger-50/ http://www.hi-tecoils.com.au/?p=1058
Eaton recommends synthetic http://www.roadranger.com/rr/ProductsServices/ProductsbyCategory/Lubricants/index.htm
http://www.myshopping.com.au/ZM--12...LTR_FULL_SYNTHETIC_ROAD_RANGER_OIL_SAE50_GL_1 but the price is not worthwhile for an old dumpy
Castrol TFC 450 appears to be for automatic transmissions?

OOOps pressed the wrong button, someone delete this?

 

[Plant Fitter]

I have one in a service truck behind a 3208. It shifts just fine, and I keep it limited to under 2300 r's.

A trans that drops 500 rpm at 1500 between gears will drop a bit over 700 at 2300. This keeps you where you need to be.

Deciding when to change cogs depends on various factors, like engine size/HP/torque, load, gradient, type of engine, etc.
Modern electrically controlled engine develop a huge amount of torque at 1200rpm, so you can get away with shifting at low revs, something which I have hard time adapting to, however old mechanical injection engines tend to drop off below 1500rpm. so the shift range is between 1500-2000rpm. The only time you really wanna go over 2000 is if you are pulling uphill and don't have a lot of gears to choose from, in other words you go to maximum revs but still want to get into the next gear at 1500 because of the forward momentum being washed off. However with splitters it makes life a lot easier.

Thanks JDOFMEMI and Hendrik for the info. My LN8000 has a Spicer syncro box, and I had always wondered how well the Roadrangers went in these trucks. The high idle speed for a 3208 is 2900 rpm I believe. If fully loaded to GCM you really have to be above 2000 rpm to get any sense out of it without clouds of black smoke, but I never go above 2500 rpm.

 

[Plant Fitter]

You're probably aware that WA is a big place and doing 80 on a long haul would suck, however yeah in a tipper situation doing local work 80 would be OK.
Guess in 1st deep it would be barely moving.

SA is a big place as well, and doing 80km/hr does suck.

I suppose 30 years ago the Louisville 9000's were lined up against the Kenworths and Macks for the long haul work, wheras the 8000's probably looked pretty good against the Leylands, Dodges, Inters, Commers, Bedfords, etc for local work.

 

[Plant Fitter]

Yeah but Eaton also tell you not to shift without using the clutch

Any mechanic that knows what they are talking about will tell you the same.

So why would you want to shift without using the clutch?

 

[Nick009]

Well I got under there today and I still can't figure out what the model number is... can you guys make any sense of this photo?



I followed the air lines from my stick today and unbolted what I thought was the cylinder as discussed above. In hindsight I'm not sure that it was.

I reread mitch's post and went looking for the filter. couldn't undo that because I don't own a spanner large enough, went to buy one, couldn't find one in several shops but did get a jumbo spanner set ordered in. hopefully that will arrive tomorrow and I'll have another crack at it...

 

[Plant Fitter]

Well I got under there today and I still can't figure out what the model number is... can you guys make any sense of this photo?

View attachment 94427

I followed the air lines from my stick today and unbolted what I thought was the cylinder as discussed above. In hindsight I'm not sure that it was.

I reread mitch's post and went looking for the filter. couldn't undo that because I don't own a spanner large enough, went to buy one, couldn't find one in several shops but did get a jumbo spanner set ordered in. hopefully that will arrive tomorrow and I'll have another crack at it...

Its the bottom number, RT?613?????, Looks like it has had a couple of different coats of paint, you will have to get that off. If you can't read it try wiping some black grease over it, the grease might stay in the indented numbers and show them up better.

Take a photo showing the back of the gearbox, one of us will be able to point out the air cylinders.

Any time you need a spanner in a size you don't have, you can make a very effective one by cutting it out of some steel plate. Same goes for sockets too.

 

[Nick009]

ok cheers, i'll get another pic tomorrow.

what do you cut the steel plate with?

 

[mitch504]

Ahh, a 13-speed, not a 15-speed. RT X613 A much more common setup, used w/ low hp engines to help out at high speed. (Before anybody jumps me for saying low hp, there is only room between the RT and the 6 for one digit. Thus, it has to be an 8 or a 9.) A 13 has no deep reduction, it has a splitter that gives you the equivalent of half gears between each gear in high range. Of course the driving instructions for a 13 are very different from a 15 speed.

If you found the filter, it should be mounted on the back of the range shift cylinder.

Seeing that model number puts us back a couple of steps. (Still clean the filter as it is an often neglected maintenance item.) Please get a picture of your shift knob, and we will discuss things some more.

Good Luck,
Mitch

 

[Plant Fitter]

what do you cut the steel plate with?

Oxy-Acetylene

 

[Hendrik]

Any mechanic that knows what they are talking about will tell you the same.

So why would you want to shift without using the clutch?

Because I am soft and my leg gets sore.
Far as I know, no synchros involved in a full shift, the RR don't seem to mind and plenty of drivers have got a million k's out of them without using the clutch.
However I am always willing to learn and if you have got good reasons as to why the clutch should be used, I am all ears, the downside of using the clutch is that you wear the clutch out quicker.

 

[JDOFMEMI]

I do know that if you try to force the shift without the clutch, you will wear out the synchros, and cause hard shifting. I had a hired driver that by the time he learned to do it right, he had the trans, and especially 3rd gear, which was the common one to start off in, to a point it was hard to get into gear with or without the clutch.

I also know that when done properly, with the engine speed matched BEFORE trying to stab the gearshift, you can do it for many years without using the clutch.

I believe all the manufacturers recommend using the clutch in order to keep the idiots from damaging them during the warranty period. It gives them a basis to deny the claims. For me, as long as I can climb behind the wheel, the clutch is what you use to get rolling, then leave it alone.