Rebuild swing cylinders 580-CK

[brian capouch]

This is my first-ever post on this forum, after trying for months to get signed up. FWIW: won't work on Linux computers.

I need to have the swing cylinders repacked on my 1966 580-CK. The hydraulic shop fellow recommended I just pull the rods and pistons rather than try to remove whole cylinders. I have some questions about "best practices."

One thread on another forum recommends centering the boom and doing both cylinders at once, but on another the advice is to do them one at a time, with the boom swung all the way over to the opposite side each time.

I hope to get some advice on that matter here, as well as any other advice on getting this job done with the least amount of hassle.

I don't have a gland nut wrench, and am hoping that a 36" pipe wrench (again on the advice of the guy at the hydraulic shop) will be sufficient. I also worry a little that the main boom pivot casting appears to be in the way of a clear pull on either cylinder, no matter where I put the boom.

Thanks in advance for any advice that may be forthcoming.

 

[alrman]

Welcome to HEF @brian capouch !
I always pull the rods & pistons to reseal swing cylinders - most machines here are side shift & to pull the whole cylinder is a mammoth task.
A 36" pipe wrench may do the job, however the glands are very soft & if tight, the teeth marks left behind ...... well.....
Personally, I wouldn't use the pipe wrench, the purchase of an adjustable gland tool is not a big expense & you will need to use it again...

I always do one cylinder at a time, placing the hoe on the ground just about 15-20 degrees off straight back, & away from the cylinder being repaired.
To remove the piston from the rod, you will need to mount the rod to something solid (maybe the swing tower with something to support the rod at the piston end) & I use 1"drive breaker bar & 6' of cheater pipe - to talk to it properly.
A deep depth socket makes the job a little easier, to allow for the cushioning plunger, but not absolutely necessary. (1 7/8" socket )

 

[brian capouch]

Thanks for the quick response. I realize in reading your reply that I neglected to ask this: would this go better with the boom up and "crowded," or stretched out fully, or somewhere in between?

I understand it will be a bit of a task to get the repacked piston back into the barrel, and if there are any tips for that aspect of it, I'd be really appreciative.

 

[RDC_580C]

As long as the holes for the gland nut aren't all boogered up, get yourself the gland wrench as it'll end up paying for itself. If they are a bit knackered, make sure to grind them flat and clear the holes with the correct size drill so the gland wrench can sit on there perfectly flat or it'll just end up kicking out on you and you'll figure it's a POS tool when it's not really at all.

If you have a welder and torch or plasma cutter on hand you could also just make your own wrench for them also.

I'd do one at a time also, but unhook everything going to both of them. Then once you have the one done, you can raise the boom, swing it over carefully by hand and let her back down and get at the other one.

You want the boom down on the ground, so it's resting there and there's no way for it to even drop an inch more. To what extent depends on how you can get to everything the best, and after the machine is off work all the levers to take the pressure off everything.

 

[alrman]

Just place the bucket on the ground with the dipper sitting near vertical. It doesn't really matter, but it does save walking all the way round the extended hoe.
You will need to also remove the hyd hose at the rear of the cylinder to make the removal & install of the rod & piston possible.

With regards installing the piston, there are two different types of seals on an early CK, chevron V type packers & flat type glide seals. Either ones go back in reasonably well, use lots of lube on the piston & in the cylinder, filling the threads. Petroleum jelly (Vasolene) is my lube of choice for this.

If you have the chevron type, hold the rod perfectly straight to the cylinder & just bump it it with a 10lb sledge.

 

[brian capouch]

I went out a bit ago, while I'm waiting on the gland nut wrench, and figured, "Later on I'll have to get the pivot pin back through the swing cylinder eye to hook things back up. Might as well see if I can do it now."

Well, I cannot. The pin pushes up with no effort through the bottom of the bracket, and then through the rod eye, but it's just a hair off on the top, and I cannot drive it in through the rest of the bracket.

To my first-timer's eye, it seems as if the main pivot on the hoe is now leaning slightly, and I am going to have to ask for some advice, because I'd rather have someone who has done it tell me than to piddle around and get it caught in a bind or something.

 

[alrman]

With the engine turned off, tie up the swing control lever in the direction you think it has to go & use a pry bar to move the cylinder rod to where it needs to be.
If it still won't move, loosen the hoses on each end of the cylinder, some oil will drop, & then pry the rod which ever way.

** Don't forget to untie the control lever before you start the engine again...**

 

[Billrog]

If it's tipped back to front or front to back fire up the machine and use the front bucket to level or set the hoe on the ground and use it.

 

[brian capouch]

I got the gland nut wrench, and the nut basically turned right off. I loosened the hoses at the "inside" of each of the cylinders. That's when the fun began. I cannot *budge* the rod. I hooked it to the back of my pickup and quickly saw that the clutch was going to go before it moved. I hooked on a come-along, hooked that to the bumper of the pickup, blocked the wheels, and then as I began to pump the ratchet the cable started to fray. (See image.)

Then I put a breaker bar inside the eye, and I cannot get the eye to rotate whatsoever.

I'm not sure what to try next.

 

[RDC_580C]

You need the hoses more than loose, you need them off there to let the fluid out, or things will go nowhere.

If you removed the gland nut completely, then you probably have the piston kinked in there now and might be damaging the inside of the cylinder. Screw the gland nut back in at least half way, then push the rod back in, then pull out on it (hoses off) and when it will pull out no more then unscrew the gland nut and pull it straight out the rest of the way.

 

[brian capouch]

Sorry for my imprecision: the hoses were off and clear of their fittings.

 

[RDC_580C]

Make sure the gland nut is still in place, so things stay in line. I don't unscrew it completely until I've pulled the rod all the way out as far as it will go. That will keep the rod from getting angled in there any, as even a small amount will cause the piston in there to cock and then all that's going to happen is damage to the cylinder wall.

 

[brian capouch]

I went back out and screwed the gland nut in about 75%. Eye will still not rotate with a 30" 1/2" breaker bar, and when I push the eye back towards the pivot pin it does not appear to have moved at all either in or out since I pulled the pivot pin out, i.e. the pivot pin slips right up through the eye. Hoses are loose on the ends of both swing cylinders, at the far (inside) ends.

 

[RDC_580C]

You need both hoses off of the cylinder you're working on, but regardless there it should rotate.

Did this thing work before it was taken apart? If it did, then something has gotten way out of wack as it should have either pulled right out by hand, or with just a little effort. You may need to put the gland and hoses back on and make sure things still work 'normally' with the machine running at a low idle. No need to reconnect the pin to the tower, but be aware that the other cylinder may still move it. If everything still works normally, then shut it off, relieve the pressure (move levers around) and start over removing the hoses and the gland nut most of the way and the rod should then move one way or another.

Sorry you're first one is going so bad, but don't let it put you off of repacking them, as most of the time it's not really a huge ordeal, but man when you get one that want's to try your patience it will try all of it.

 

[brian capouch]

The swing cylinders operated normally before I began the project; they both leak pretty badly though.

> You need both hoses off of the cylinder you're working on, but regardless there it should rotate.

There are flared connectors on both of the swing cylinders on the seat-side (or inside) of the unit. I removed both. The other connections (on the gland ends) are up underneath and do not have flared fittings on them; it looks like you'd have to take the cylinder off (including the trunnions, etc., that everyone told me to avoid if possible) and then unscrew them with the cylinder out off the machine. They come into the barrel right in the front, and when I pulled the gland there was a little pressure and that oil drained out of the barrel. So unless I'm thinking wrong (entirely possible) there shouldn't be any pressure at either end.

 

[RDC_580C]

Yeah with the gland all the way out there's no way for pressure to be built up on that side, but the gland should be left partly in while pulling on the rod to keep things from binding up, and in that case there will be pressure in there and the hose should come off. If the other end of the hose is reachable that's another option, as is tying the lever/pedal in to position so that pressure has somewhere to go.

The fact it doesn't turn though has me wondering if you removed the gland nut all the way, then got to pulling on it and have the piston kinked in there now. I'd reconnect the hoses and see how the machine acts. Either that thing will break free, and work like it did before, then it should come apart easily, or it's going to groan and not move it at all, in which case it's the machine/hydraulic shop for that thing, and I wouldn't imagine the news would be good.

 

[brian capouch]

I put it all back together and the cylinder went in and out just fine, except for a little jerkiness, which I think is to be expected since the barrel was mostly filled with air. Worked it in and out a couple of times--I don't think it had moved from where I had it apart the first time.

Now it's all back apart. It's pitch dark so I'm done for the day, but I was able to get the rod to rotate with a breaker bar through the eye, but it moves grudgingly, and took and enormous amount of force--enough that the bar was deflected pretty good. But it moved, so I guess that's progress, although I may have quailed and given up earlier before I got to where I got it just now.

 

[Billrog]

Had trouble with one once just hooked the back hose back up fired up the machine and used the hydraulics to push it out . Just go gently to minimize the amount of oil you'll use.

 

[Juskatla]

I had a bad leak in one of my swing cylinders and when I dropped them at the shop for rebuild, the shop foreman told me the rod was probably bent as this was not uncommon on the 580. We took it to the bench and with a straight edge on the rod, it was out almost 1/4" over the length. They put a new rod on that one, honed the tubes and replaced the packings and seals on both of them. I used new bolts on the bearing trunnions as they were constantly coming loose. Fixed the issue. I still don't know what caused the rod to bend. I have owned the machine for almost 30 tears, so it must have been something I did.

Let us know what you find once its apart.

 

[brian capouch]

Well the cylinder is apart now and the rod at the shop getting rebuilt.

The issue turned out to be a very very small "ridge" just inside the barrel from the gland, where the piston didn't travel. Maybe 1/32" and irregularly traversing the circumference of the barrel, it was holding back the piston pack from coming out, and the tough time I had rotating the rod was also due to the ridge--I had the cylinder all the way out, and the piston was "caught" on it.

It was pretty impressive. After ruining my come-along, we used a multi-ton chain version, and as we pulled the handle the whole backhoe, tractor and all, was being pulled along for the ride.

What finally did the trick was a simple sideways kick to the eye, and the rod popped right out.

The fellow at the rebuild shop said that it was pretty common, and nothing in particular to worry about. What a trip!!