I was wondering if anyone has ever tried build up on rollers on a dozer . I have some wear and would like to catch it before it needs replacing. I was courios about using a wire welder and making a vat that would let a portion of the roller stay submerged to protect the bearings. Does anyone have a idea of a good wire to use? Thanks.https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/Forum/images/icons/icon4.gif
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Re-build undercarriage
- Thread starter Swamp rat
- Start date
gggraham
Senior Member
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2009
- Messages
- 589
- Location
- London Ontario Canada
- Occupation
- Licensed Heavy Duty Equipment Mechanic
By the time you weld them up, then turn them down you could probably just replace them cheaper. I've seen attempts to weld up idlers and rollers. Some pretty good disasters too, most of them end up leaking. If they are worn that badly they are bound to be on their last legs. Wondering if the chains and sprockets can be much better. If you think you can live with the chains and sprockets buy some cheap offshore rollers. You'll still be farther ahead. :my2c
surfer-joe
Senior Member
Built up rollers used to be pretty common, and there are probably still some shops that do it. But gggraham is right. Non-OEM manufauturers have forced the prices down so much that you are better off going ahead with new. They are made to original specs and carry a warranty.
However, if you insist on doing your own, tear the rollers down and clean them up. Build up to approximate spec, don't worry about machining and or even chipping off the last row of slag. The built-up roller will smooth out soon enough under operation.
Once the welding is done, new seals and possibly bearings or bushings are needed. There is no good way to weld up worn rollers that are assembled. The seals won't stand it. I'd use a better wire than 7018, maybe a 11018. Don't use stainless or hardface, stainless is too soft and hardface will just chip out quickly.
Once the roller is rebuilt, it has to be refilled with oil, unless you have some old grease filled rollers. Use the tractor manufacturers reccommendations for lubricant.
I used a lot of the rebuilt rollers on the eastcoast during the eighties, bought most of them -- and rebuilt rails and idlers too -- from Albin Tractor out of Baltimore. Got away from them though as new hardware became cost competitive.
Good luck!
However, if you insist on doing your own, tear the rollers down and clean them up. Build up to approximate spec, don't worry about machining and or even chipping off the last row of slag. The built-up roller will smooth out soon enough under operation.
Once the welding is done, new seals and possibly bearings or bushings are needed. There is no good way to weld up worn rollers that are assembled. The seals won't stand it. I'd use a better wire than 7018, maybe a 11018. Don't use stainless or hardface, stainless is too soft and hardface will just chip out quickly.
Once the roller is rebuilt, it has to be refilled with oil, unless you have some old grease filled rollers. Use the tractor manufacturers reccommendations for lubricant.
I used a lot of the rebuilt rollers on the eastcoast during the eighties, bought most of them -- and rebuilt rails and idlers too -- from Albin Tractor out of Baltimore. Got away from them though as new hardware became cost competitive.
Good luck!
DPete
Senior Member
It's not worth it, often the weld chunks out, life is about half of a new shell.
My company welds up D8R Idlers for a Waste company and we haven't had any complaints. It ends up saving the company tons of money. We always install new seals because the seals are meant to last the life of the idler. I highly recommend welding them in water, otherwise they tend to crack. We learned this the hard way. We don't weld any rollers because we can sell them new cheaper than we can build them up.
John C.
Senior Member
I have worked with several companies that weld large machine idlers and it is very cost competitive with purchasing new. It works very well for high drive machines because you have doubled your costs. Most Cat dealers have the special machines needed to do the projects properly with the right kind of wire. There used to be an independant in my area I worked with that also had the right machine for the job. It was a submerged arc with twin feeders that welded both sides at the same time. Water was never used as the metalurgy in the wire and the process ensured proper adhesion and I saw minimal chunking or cracking. This type of process also minimized cracking around the hubs after the job was done.
As I recall welding didn't pay with anything less than a D7 sized wheel. The process stopped being cost competitive in all rollers years ago.
Welding rollers or idlers by hand is a waste of time. Generally rollers become out of round and the welding rod is not optomized for that application and either rolls off the sides or comes off in big chunks.
As I recall welding didn't pay with anything less than a D7 sized wheel. The process stopped being cost competitive in all rollers years ago.
Welding rollers or idlers by hand is a waste of time. Generally rollers become out of round and the welding rod is not optomized for that application and either rolls off the sides or comes off in big chunks.
srs_mn
Well-Known Member
I used to build up bottom rollers on JD350 and 450 size machines all the time back in the 70's and 80's.
I'd fill a five gallon plastic pail with water and set the still assembled roller on top of it with the bottom half in the water; weld a pass - crosswise - with 7018 rod; roll the weld under the water to cool it, and repeat... many times... I never ground or turned anything when finished and in a couple of months you could hardly see they'd been welded - I suppose you could make a pass with hard facing rod, but I never did and they lasted quite a while - 7018 will work harden nicely.
I never had any problem with overheating the seals or anything; I could lay my hand on the roller anyplace without burning it... the cost was very low as my only expense was the rods, but it DOES take a bunch of time... ten rollers will kill most of your week, or more, depending on how dedicated you are... I did it in the wintertime sitting on a stool in front of my open garage door.
I did find that if the rollers needed other work, like seals and bushings, that it was more cost effective to just buy new ones, though.
srs_mn
I'd fill a five gallon plastic pail with water and set the still assembled roller on top of it with the bottom half in the water; weld a pass - crosswise - with 7018 rod; roll the weld under the water to cool it, and repeat... many times... I never ground or turned anything when finished and in a couple of months you could hardly see they'd been welded - I suppose you could make a pass with hard facing rod, but I never did and they lasted quite a while - 7018 will work harden nicely.
I never had any problem with overheating the seals or anything; I could lay my hand on the roller anyplace without burning it... the cost was very low as my only expense was the rods, but it DOES take a bunch of time... ten rollers will kill most of your week, or more, depending on how dedicated you are... I did it in the wintertime sitting on a stool in front of my open garage door.
I did find that if the rollers needed other work, like seals and bushings, that it was more cost effective to just buy new ones, though.
srs_mn