Putting a Case 1085B Cruz-Air Back Into Service

[Robertogatos]

Hello, first time post, but long time reader.

This is my first large excavator, plan is to use it primarily as a carrier for a 48'' Pro-Mac mulching head to knock back brush on our ranch. Other functions will be some occasional digging, and lifting / material handling while we're without a crane. The machine has some nice features like the DigMor (extend-a-hoe), Wrist-O-twist (bucket swivel), Cab heater / AC, rear axle locker, and 4 corner stabilizers. The machine is as close to a new as you can get, and everything is in excellent condition / appearance, minus the paint job that became a bit faded a bit under the desert sun. Best part is the machine only has gathered 200 hours!

It was in non running condition when we took delivery, and after going through all the fluids/filters, new tires, she's up and moving around. I already spent a few days switching the controls over to a conventional S.A.E. / Cat pattern, which makes the machine actually workable. The Case pattern was a joke, but after switching over, I'm right at home.

Now that the carriers up and moving I'm working on getting the work tools setup, and quirks of the tractor sorted. This is where I could use some help...

I'm trying to find a bucket that fits this machine, but i'm not having the best of luck... Is there a class of bucket I should be looking for? Something used would be preferable to save some money. I'd assume the machine would use the same bucket mounted directly to the stick / linkage as it would the Wrist-O-Twist attachment... The pins mounting the wrist-o-twist to the stick / linkage are all just under 2'' diameter. Something like 1.985''. The odd thing is that the pin diameters for the wrist-o-twist / quick coupler are larger than that, at roughly 2 1/16''. The Wrist-O-Twist / quick coupler clamps down on one of the pins (furthest from the machine) but not the one closest. Seems the bucket would have a ton of clatter If I were to use the 1.985'' pins that would mount the bucket directly to the stick. Is this big of a tolerance necessary for the quick coupler to be effective? Whats the best thing to do here? Am capable of machining / fabricating pins / mounts but I'd like to build something that would fit other machines in the future, and conform to a convention. Do any machines still use this pin diameter / width / spacing? The pins are 14'' on center, stick opening width is 11 15/16'' and bucket ram linkage width is 7 5/16''.

What would be a good size bucket for this machine? It weighs 40k and am mostly digging in fractured sand stone. For reference, our 580 super l swings a 24'' bucket nicely through just about everything around here. I'd also like to get a bucket to use for loading piles of gravel into trucks. What would be the biggest I could go on this, only moving bulk fluffy materials to quickly load trucks?

Is there also a resource to look at what service bulletins were released regarding this machine? I know there were some, but case dealers haven't been very much help on any of these points.

Thanks for any of you input, I'm looking forward to getting some time on this machine!

 

[Robertogatos]

Here are a few pictures of the machine

 

[Shimmy1]

What are the hydraulic requirements for the mulching head? Does the hoe even have auxillary hydraulics? I would be very surprised if that machine would be capable of running that head. Those machines were all gear pumps, and *if* it could supply enough flow (and pressure), I don't believe it's going to be able to keep the oil cool with factory cooling. Just some observations, apologies in advance if you've already crossed this bridge. As far as parts support, my guess is you're going to be SOL from any Case dealer, they probably stopped making parts 25 years ago.

 

[Robertogatos]

Hey Shimmy, thanks for the reply.

The hoe does not have aux. lines at the end of the stick (I'm working in that now), but there is an extra spool available on one of the two valve blocks. Its currently used for the "fast crowd function" and is remotely controlled via a button in cab, but I plan to repurpose for the Aux. lines. The hydraulic system is powered by a 143 gross Hp Cummins 6 cylinder, powering two gear style pumps, that net a combined 114GPM flow at 2900 PSI. The system does incorporate an oil cooler, although I'm not sure if I will be able to use it, depending on the back pressure it leaves in the system. The reservoir is maybe somewhere around 25-30 gal. This may or may not be a problem, but only one way to find out... Each valve block is powered by one of the single pumps, and I'm nut sure, but would think they each provide about the same pressure / flow. (Anyone know this?) Given that, and after talking with ProMac, this should power the head, with a longer recovery rate than normal, but I'm also only going to be working in 6'' max thickness pine trees, and really mostly just brush.

Parts I know will be an adventure, but so far I've had good luck. Hope that continues!

 

[245dlc]

Parts I doubt will be that hard unless your in a remote area these things usually have off the shelf parts. Those flails usually don't like mulching much more than 6" we have one on a Kobelco SK210LC. I think the pressure could be an issue though as both our Promac brush cutter and flail are running at or near 6,000psi if I remember correctly. The manufacture of these machines was eventually taken over by Badger and they produced a 'C' series and a 'D' series and the 'D' series machines were never 'modernized' and were still running gear pumps if I remember correctly. They just changed the cab and made it a little more fancy. In my neck of the woods our Case dealer was selling these 'Drotts' as they are known here for a long time. Currently Badger is owned by Manitex so I'll leave you a couple links if it helps getting more intel on your Drott. Hitrac is our local Case dealer so you never know they might be have somebody who knows about Drotts and can point you in the right direction as there are still a few owner/operators bouncing around on machines probably older than yours. I've thought about buying one myself but a Gradall is kinda more appealing to me.
https://www.manitex.com/brands.aspx#

http://www.hitrac.com/

 

[Robertogatos]

Thanks for the info and links. Trying to learn as much about these as fast as possible. I went ahead and grabbed an auxiliary hydraulic power pack today. Its powered by a 200hp detroit 4v92, producing 3000 PSI at 70GPM. If the machine cannot power the mulching head well enough, I'll wind up mounting this on the counterweight.

Ordered material to make the new hitch for the mulching head. Any word on pin sizes for buckets or other like attachments?

Another question, would the Wrist-o-Twist bucket swivel be a function you would use with the head? Was thinking about how it might be helpful to take off only tree limbs while driving down a narrow road.

 

[Shimmy1]

How heavy is the head?

 

[Robertogatos]

1800-2000

 

[Shimmy1]

Suppose it might work. I've never worked with one of those Case tilters, and they don't look like they're the best built attachment out there.

 

[Robertogatos]

Suppose it might work. I've never worked with one of those Case tilters, and they don't look like they're the best built attachment out there.

Do you know of the weak points to look out for?

 

[245dlc]

I know a fella with a Kaiser Spyder excavator that uses a powertilt with a bushhog style mower it helps with mowing on slopes and getting at weird angles. But those wrist 'o' twists as they called them never looked very strong to me and I've only ever seen them being used with a ditching bucket.

 

[Shimmy1]

I would guess this is pretty close to what you have. In this pic, I would be concerned about the verticle pin, and the attachment of the top pin boss.

 

[245dlc]

Yeah I wouldn't put that promac under it. I used a similar tilt unit on a JD595D and it liked to crack welds from time to time.

 

[Robertogatos]

It looks like that the one.

 

[Robertogatos]

Yeah I wouldn't put that promac under it. I used a similar tilt unit on a JD595D and it liked to crack welds from time to time.

I'm wondering how mulching brush would do more damage than a bucket? Just the vibrations?

 

[245dlc]

I'm wondering how mulching brush would do more damage than a bucket? Just the vibrations?

It's also the shock forces of mulching up vegetation you've got something whirling around with several hammers on it probably weighing altogether around 1000lbs maybe more. Then you'll get in to vegetation that can be wirey like willow bushes that will want to wrap around the thing. Your also working on a narrower higher undercarriage that's on big bouncy tires so trying to keep that front end light will be important for you as well. Here's a video of the flail we have on our 210 Kobelco.

That big heavy thumb makes it pretty tippy when I'm reached out fully and I have 36" wide tracks on that thing!

 

[Robertogatos]

Thanks for posting the video.

Update: Just received my order of chromoly to make the pins for the hitch. Just went ahead and ordered 2'' material, so I hope that works... Will post some pictures once I start cutting / welding.

 

[old timer]

Just a little info about your pins. You are right, Drott/Case 1085, the clearance is machined into the pins, all the bushings are full 2"
If that is a ProMac LDM it weighs closer to 2000lbs. A DigMore stick is heavy to begin with so you will need the 4 outriggers for sure! As for buchet size they are rated for a 7/8 yard, I used to put 42" digging buckets on them (without the wrist) and a 6' cleanup/ditching bucket (with the wrist) The weak point is the wrist.
The machine will combine flow pretty well and the back pressure is low on 1085B's. I have put Tramac 501 hammers on them. Hammers require less the 40lbs back pressure. Never had a worry about hydraulic cooling even with slashers or ProMac rotary brush cutters.
As for the weak points..... the electrical swivel can be a nightmare, unless you pull it out and clean/rebuild, then you should get a number of years service. In the same area is the shifter tubes/accelerator tubes that run thru the center DON'T BEND THEM.
I'm speaking from hard won experiance.... my dad bought one of the first Drott's in Canada (ended up with 5 of them), and I have been working on most of the models all my life (and thats a long time)
If you need any more info I am more than happy to help.

 

[Robertogatos]

Thought I'd post a quick update. I've been making some progress in-between all our other projects.



Had some complications with the hydraulic throttle that took some time to sort out, someone put dot 3 in the throttle which ate all the seals in the master, then slave cylinder. Couldn't find seals anywhere, so wound up replacing them with some copy-cat ebay parts, and filling with dot 5 silicone. All bled, and seems to be working fine now. Hoping the seals in the swivel hold out for awhile longer.

Then I started experiencing intermittent electrical issues which I tracked town to be at the swivel (thanks for the tip old timer!). Occasionally an electrical circuit won't function unless you swing the turn table, then the contacts in the swivel work fine. This work around hasn't been an issue except for the few times I couldn't restart the machine after shutting it down. Blew the electrical swivel out with compressed air, followed by contact cleaner, and its much better now, but not 100%. My workaround in the meantime was to add a switch under the hood to jump the starter in the event the machine won't start. Kinda jankey, but its saved me a few times already. Just need to set aside some time to rebuild the elec. swivel, but I'm not there yet. Still haven't actually USED this thing!

The head is mounted now, the 2'' chromoly pins are burned in and well gusseted. Going to try and make it work with the wrist, and if it starts to come apart, will reinforce as necessary. I like the idea of being able to quickly take it on / off quickly, and fabricating a hitch that would have had the pins slide through it would have been a ton more work. Can always change it up down the line if need be, but need this to be up and running before fire season starts.

My next project is going to be plumbing the hydraulic circuit and we'll finally be up and running. Heres where I have a couple questions...

The mulcher head was spec'd to run at 35 GPM and 4000 PSI. The machine (with both pumps combined) produces 114gpm with a relief setting at 2600 PSI. After talking with Promac, they were concerned that much flow will overspeed the drum, so I'm going to try only connecting to a single valve block and thus a single pump, and measure drum RPM with a tach. The target drum RPM is 2000. If we're close, I'll just make sure to have a set engine rpm I don't exceed, but if doing that makes the performance too slow on the other machine functions I'll need to change pulley diameters between the motor and drum, or add a flow restrictor.

So my questions are...

1) Most of the big lines on the machine, for the boom or stick use what looks like -16 hydraulic hose / fittings. I'm guessing this is what diameter I should plumb to the end of the stick? something around 1'' ID. Is this excessive? would like future compatibility with other tools, with something maybe like a hammer, or whatever the worst case may be.

2) Which valve block would you tap for the aux circuit? My thought is to use the "fast crowd" circuit on the 4 spool block.

3) Do both of the hydraulic pumps provide the same amount of pressure / flow?

4) What is the "summator", (pictured in the diagram) is if of any concern to me? Goal right now is to not combine the flow of both pumps for this circuit. Don't know what a "Summated hydraulic system" is.



Thanks for taking the time to read this, appreciate the input.

 

[John C.]

The summator is a component used to make a positive flow hydraulic system act like a variable flow system. The intent is that when pressure and flow combine to pull more horsepower than the engine is able to deliver, the summator would let some of that flow bypass to tank while keeping pressure on the work equipment. Drott came out with the system in the late 1970s. Your stated flow rate and pressure relief setting would indicate an engine capable of producing nearly 300 horsepower. The summator would be able to adapt from those stats for an engine to produce a lot less power and achieve better fuel economy. As far as running a mulcher goes you probably can find plenty of flow out of the machine but power characteristics of running a 4,000 PSI system with a 2,600 PSI system will be somewhat disappointing. Also keep in mind that you have to return all that flow back to the hydraulic tank with little pressure. If you are running 1" supply piping to the mulcher, you will need 1.25" to 1.50" return piping back to the tank and you will have to return it through a swivel. You are setting your system up for plenty of problems.