problem with Cable blade winch on old D7 CAT

[BWILL]

I have an old D7 CAT with a cable blade. I think its from the 50's. I use this thing regularly and everything works fine except that the cable blade winch that started complaining when I ask it to lift the blade. The blade brake works fine and holds the blade up and it releases fine so its not keeping the blade from lifting. The problem has been getting worse and now it just squeals when I tell it to lift the blade. The winch tries to turn but then squeals. I have a parts manual and operation manual for the CAT but niether book includes diagrams of the cable winch. I am guessing there is a clutch in the winch with worn out plates but I really don't know what to expect inside the winch. I have pulled the winch off and set it in the back of my truck but haven't split it open yet. Does anyone have diagrams or parts schmatics for this kind of winch? Let me know if a better picture of the winch would help. Here is a pic of the winch when it was still on and the D7 doing some dirt moving last month.
thanks!

 

[Old Magnet]

That's a #24 Cat cable control. Can you post the s/n?

 

[BWILL]

thanks for the reply!

Here are some pictures with numbers on the winch. I can see cast in numbers of "4F4945" and "4F5983" and I see another stamped number on lower right corner that I think is:
8D5523. If these aren't the s/n that you're asking for, could you tell me where to look for the s/n?

 

[lantraxco]

May have just needed some adjustment, but probably does need new clutch plates. A little before my time but I believe that's called a CCU, Cable Control Unit?

Similar to this:



When I worked at Halton, which is now Peterson CAT they still had books on some of these old dogs, and Used parts there might be helpful also.

 

[BWILL]

Thanks, I will try contacting Peterson CAT. Do you have any idea how the "#3" clutch adjusting sleeve works?

 

[Old Magnet]

8D5523 is the s/n.

Try running it through the adjustments first.
Clutch plates are the same as used in the D4's of that era.

 

[BWILL]

Old Magnet, wow those are very readable scanned documents. I will check brake adjustment first thing tomorrow. I bet the brake is way out of position because I have had it apart to remove some parts of the brake pads that had broken apart. I removed those brake pad debris and put it back together. After that I adjusted the spring tension just enough to hold the blade up. I did not do any adjustment to recenter the clutch lever.
Do you think anyone would have brake pads or should I find a place to have mine relined? Same question for the clutch. I put a call into Peterson CAT but dont have an answer back yet.

 

[old-iron-habit]

Make certain that the machines engine is shut off before you adjust that CCU. Many fingers and arms have been mangled when the clutch grabbed while adjusting. I"m certain adjsting will cure your problem. Make sure you use a Cat clamp bolt. They have a special shoulder and a regular class 8 bolt will continually come loose. Interesting enough, your unit does not have the clamp that goes over the 3/4 inch clutch adjusting bolt adding another hold in addition to the clamp bolt. The clamps do wear round inside over time also. Parts for the 24 and 25 CCUs are readily available from Cat. Note that on different serial numbers the adjustment direction is reversed.

 

[BWILL]

I see what you mean about no lock plate. There arent even any holes in the main body for the lock plate to be locked to. About the clamp, if you look at my pics youll notice the cotter pins sticking out of the clamp. The guy I bought the CAT from put those and some other shim material in the clamp. I took the cotter pins out when I had it apart for for the brake problem described above but didnt really know why he had jammed them in there. Now that I've read your posts I think my clamp must be worn and will not hold the sleave without shims. Are shims an okay option to help the clamp bite? Or do you have a better suggestion?

 

[catman13]

bwill
if you need to rebuild the clutch plates you could try-
(Automotive Friction Company
20521 Se Highway 212
Damascus, OR
(503) 855-3670)
they have done about a dozen clutches & brakes for my tractors and cats and truck for me over the years and had no problems .
in the clutches they have used Kevlar material and it works great and it saves the flywheel and pressure plate from wearing.

 

[John C.]

Mr. Old Iron is correct on adjusting the clutch with the engine shut down. Back when I had to work on a couple of front units on sevens and eights the adjustments were really touchy. You can match that adjuster hole a little high or low and the clutch will lock in and not release. Getting your hand on the shut down before the blade two blocks and snaps the cable made things a bit exciting. Using will fit clutch plates made things especially tense until you figured out how they would grab. When I had a pony motor, I checked the winch out with that. Most of the machines I worked on then had to be push started.

 

[Old Magnet]

Old Magnet, wow those are very readable scanned documents. I will check brake adjustment first thing tomorrow. I bet the brake is way out of position because I have had it apart to remove some parts of the brake pads that had broken apart. I removed those brake pad debris and put it back together. After that I adjusted the spring tension just enough to hold the blade up. I did not do any adjustment to recenter the clutch lever.
Do you think anyone would have brake pads or should I find a place to have mine relined? Same question for the clutch. I put a call into Peterson CAT but dont have an answer back yet.

If it needs clutch discs it takes 6-2B8955 steel discs and 7-3F5504 cintered bronze face clutch discs, same as used on D4 Cat steering clutches. Most purchase from www.steeringclutch.com Often the steel discs can be reused.
Any good clutch/brake shop should be able to do the brake linings. Current bonded shoes are better than the old rivet on.

Cover is a 4F4943. Some had the lock tab, some don't. All had problems keeping the clamp tight.

 

[BWILL]

Well my brake adjustment was way off. The clutch roller is resting at about 2 inches to the right of the "V" mark. I also found that a brake linkage pin is broken too. I need to fix brakes and make adjustments but now I am not sure if clutch needs replaced or just adjusted.

 

[BWILL]

I did some more disassembly of the winch. Its already off the CAT and in my garage and I definately am going to replace some of the brake components so I figured I would atleast inspect the clutch parts. I took off the front cover and the brake band. I don't know how to get into the clutch plates but it looks like the spool or drum has to come off in order to get to the next layer. I don't even know if the clutch plates are inside where the oil is or if they are just located in the center of the spool. Can anyone tell me which part to disassemble next in order to get the the clutch plates? Hopefully I don't have to take off the 1 and 7/8" nut on the back. Does anyone have an exploded diagram of the clutch components for this winch?
thanks, Brian

 

[Old Magnet]

With the cover off, next step is to remove the capscrews holding the cable drum to the brake drum then unscrew the clutch adjusting sleeve until the cable drum can be lifted from the shaft. I don't have a spec for minimum clutch pac thickness but when new the steel plates are 0.090" thick and the cintered plates are 0.185" thick.
I don't have an exploded view but here is a cross section.
Can feed you instructions as you go along.

 

[BWILL]

Okay, I have removed the cap screws. The brake drum seems like its loose but the cable drum doesnt. If I backout the clutch adjusting sleeve does that pull the cable drum with it?

 

[Old Magnet]

Yes, unscrew the cable drum and hub as an assembly.
The brake lever should be in the hold or neutral position so the clutch and brake drum are supported as the clutch discs are removed.

 

[Old Magnet]

Did find the specs for the clutch pack. New is 1.736 to 1.932" thick
Minimum when worn 1.438" thick.

 

[razz]

I have the disk and brake band if you need them parted out a 24 unit should be very good as I had just replaced everything Razz.

 

[BWILL]

Old Magnet, thanks for the wear limit. I got the clutch plates out and the clutch pack is 1.45" and the clutch discs have very thin material left on them. Looks like I am going to need to get those too.