Perkins 4-236 engine woes on a MF50B

[Bryan1]

G'day Guy's,
I recently did a post in my original thread but my problem might go un noticed.
Anyway I was out the back of my farm today getting rocks when the motor just cut out on me and now it just cranks over and won't start.

The things I checked.

Plenty of diesel and no diesel leaks seen
The cutout lever on the injector pump is in the run position.
Everything looks normal as I did a heap of work on it this morning and would of noticed any changes.

Before the engine would start on the first kick but now as it just cranks away without starting I wonder if something broke big time.

Any idea's as to why the motor would just cut out and refuse to start will be appreciated as the backhoe is stuck out the back of the farm in open weather.

Regards Bryan

 

[willie59]

Sorry to hear you troubles Bryan1. But you have to check your fuel supply before you suspect anything else. Clogged filter, resticted fuel supply line, even faulty lift pump. You have to make certain the injection pump is getting sufficient fuel delivered to it.

 

[Bryan1]

Thanks for the quick reply Atco, in the morning I'll take my son out and see if fuel is getting thru. As I only just recently got this hoe and the motor kicked into life straight away I assumed everything was purfect. I am glad now I haven't sold my fiat 450 tractor as where the backhoe is parked even a 4wd vehicle will have fun getting to it. If I do see there is no fuel getting to the injector pump I'll buy new filters and a new lift pump. The motor doesn't blow any smoke so I do know it's in good nic so hopefully it is just a fuel blockage.

Regards Bryan

 

[cps]

I had a simaliar problem lately on a jcb, no fuel coming out of the injector pump, plenty of fuel getting to the injector pump, turned out the shut of lever snaped inside, but ofcourse check that you have good fuel to the pump first!

 

[Bryan1]

G'day Guy's,
Well out the back this morning and the first thing I did was take the inlet pipe from the tank to the lift pump. Sure enough it was blocked, I took some plastic hose with me which did come in handy for blowing back up the pipe until I heard bubbles clearly in the fuel tank. My old jumper lead clamps didn't hold up so I had to come back over the hill and put new but smaller clamps on. I cracked 2 injectors and once I had enough power to crank it over she soon came to life. Anyway got a bucket of rocks and got the hoe back over the hill, unloaded the rocks which took near 1/2 an hour. Then I decided to drive it up to my shed, 1/2 up the drive she cut out again. I rolled it back off the road and later when I got out back to get my tractor I'll get it going again so I can get the backhoe upto my shed. I'm going to drain the fuel out, take the fuel tank off and clean it. Also all the filters will be replaced and the whole fuel system cleaned etc.

Although the battery was near flat I would of thought near an hours running would of given it a charge but it was still flat. I do know the battery is in good order to so while it's down for a fuel overhaul I'll totally rewire it too.

Regards Bryan

 

[OneWelder]

That has a sediment screen in the lift pump- there is one screw on top - take the cover off screen is right there - and while your there there is well to blow out

 

[willie59]

That has a sediment screen in the lift pump- there is one screw on top - take the cover off screen is right there - and while your there there is well to blow out

Yup, that model Perkins should have a lift pump with a screen inside, definitely want to check that screen. :yup


If you know for certain your battery and connections are good, if it has that fat Lucas starter on it, those starters really drag and draw amps when the brushes start going down.

 

[Bryan1]

Well guy's after I went and got my fiat tractor from the back paddock I hooked up the jumpers and it just cranked away again. I took off the same fuel line from the tank and yep it was blocked. Blew threw the pipe until it was clear, loosened off one injector nut and she fired up in no time. so after all the fun the hoe is now parked out front of my shed and this week I'll get all new fuel filters and drain the fuel tank, take it out and thoroughly clean it. Thanks for help guy's it is really appreciated.

Regards Bryan

 

[norite]

Could be a piece of rag or crap floating around in the tank, will run OK until it gets sucked up against the pickup in the tank.

 

[d4c24a]

tank

if your tank outlet has the shutoff tap built into it then you have more than likey blow the gauze off the inside of the outlet in the tank ,which will now allow crap down your pipe ,best to get it out and clean it and refit

be there and done it on a little MF40

 

[Bryan1]

G'day Guy's,
I do have one query on the electrical side as the battery cables are black for positive and red for negative is this ol' MF50B positive earth ????

Atco after you mentioned about the starter motor I went and had a look at mine and the starter looks to brand new, on the plate it says 12 volt 2.8kw.

 

[mitch504]

G'day Guy's,
I do have one query on the electrical side as the battery cables are black for positive and red for negative is this ol' MF50B positive earth ????

Atco after you mentioned about the starter motor I went and had a look at mine and the starter looks to brand new, on the plate it says 12 volt 2.8kw.

Don't ever rely on cable color on an old machine, trace your cables from the battery to where they stop. For regular negative ground the cable from the - post will attach to the engine or to the end of the starter, and the cable from the + post will attach to the round solenoid on top of the starter. I have never worked on a MF backhoe but have worked on a bunch of MF farm tractors and they were all negative ground.

 

[stock]

 

[d4c24a]

why you so mad stock :beatsme

 

[Bryan1]

G'day Guy's,
Finally got around to cleaning the fuel system today, after I drained all the fuel out I took off the outlet and didn't find any screen but there was a heap of crap in it. Also the fuel filters were pretty dirty with what appeared to be dirt. Anyway the fuel system is all fixed now and the backhoe is running nicely. The weld I did on the top slew pin cracked today when I was digging a trench so with the next weld I'll use some 316 SS rods and hopefully they will be better.

Regards Bryan

 

[Ando]

The weld I did on the top slew pin cracked today when I was digging a trench so with the next weld I'll use some 316 SS rods and hopefully they will be better.

Regards Bryan

Hey Bryan, how come you're using SS rods? What's the base metal(s)

 

[Bryan1]

Hi Ando,
Stock did say to me what the base metals are but after the advise he gave me in private chat apparently I didn't respond in time so I do imagine thats why he did the non smiley post. With the slew post being hardened steel and the base mount being cast steel TC16 low hydrogen rods didn't cut the mustard. With the next weld attempt I'm going to grind down some 6mm SS bar to a wedge for both sides then pre-heat both the area I'm going to weld and throw the rods into the oven for 2 hours before I start.

The slew does tend to move pretty quick and if this next fix breaks I'll make a new lower mount for the hoe and keep tolerances under 0.001". The slew motor still works OK so although it does leak I can live with that. With the work I have coming up digging 1 ton rocks out if the slew mount needs welding everyday it will be worth it.

If worse comes to worse I'll get a new slew motor made and both mounts redone. But once I fix this 1840 case bobcat that will be here this weekend the landscaping business will be up and going and with the 15 ton tipper well the oyster is here I reckon........


Cheers Bryan

 

[willie59]

Hi Ando,
Stock did say to me what the base metals are but after the advise he gave me in private chat apparently I didn't respond in time so I do imagine thats why he did the non smiley post.

LoL, Aye, the lad Stock does have a way with words to be sure.

 

[stock]

Gee I'm getting a bum wrap here ....the splined section is induction hardened steel while the kingpost is cast steel. I found that cleaning it well and removing as much old weld and deleterious matter as possible then put in a root of dissimilar metal rod or what I call a 29.9,now depending on the damage done I used to give it a cover weld of the same (if very bad) or use some standard stainless steel rods capped off with a 7018.Again I will say that experience plays a large part in this so you will have to wing it yourself.It is not a permanent fix however and depending on how much abuse it gets will denote how long it will last.The last one I did was for a local farmer and he still uses it after 5or 6 years, I also did one which I felt was a success only to be told two weeks later that it was gone.went back only to find the weld didn't break but had been pulled out of the casting.I gave 8 hrs repairing it again and the changed the pilot resulting in the repair lasting until the machine was traded..............

Wouldn't mind you know but them backhoes are abandoned left right and centre over here, with farmers removing them to use the rest of the loader for feeding cattle.

 

[Bryan1]

Well more fun with the fuel, yesterday we had a bushfire here and I told the CFS guys they could use the dam out the back of my place to fill the tankers. I took the backhoe over and carved out a road so the tankers could get to the dam. I knew the ol' gal had atleast 25 litres of fuel but after I got the basic path done and was on getting down to dirt she cutout. Took off the inlet pipe to the lift pump and yep no fuel, walked over the hill and got about 15 litres out of my fiat tractor. Went back over and put the fuel in loosened one injector and she soon came back to life so I parked it off the road I made so the tankers could get to the dam. This morning started her up and the battery clamp was so corroded I ended up using an insulated 6" shifter as a bridge which did work. Drove about 10 metres and she cutout on me. Sure enough the inlet pipe was blocked again. when I was in town getting some more diesel the guy did mention when a machine is left for long periods algie will grow in the tank and when mixed with diesel will turn brown. When I changed the fuel filters yep brown stuff was everywhere in both filters.

As the shifter method of starting did create sparks I made a new set of leads and put them on this evening after it had cooled down (42C in the shade today). Sadly after all the cranking I did previously the battery didn't have the juice to get her kicked over to bleed the system, so in the morning I'll go over with the Fiat and jump start her. Once I get her over the hill the fuel tank is coming out which aint a small job and getting a thorough clean to get rid of all the algie. also that needle valve on the tank outlet is going and i'll make a new outlet with a ball valve and install an inline filter before the lift pump.

Well the outcome was the tankers did get enough water to get the fire under control and the ol' gal had enough grunt to carve that road in under an hour.

Cheers Bryan