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Old man work? No.....he's with MSHA

Discussion in 'Safety Issues' started by RollOver Pete, Sep 19, 2014.

  1. RollOver Pete

    RollOver Pete Senior Member

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    The machine is a 1976 Cat 980B.
    This machine was purchased new in 1976 and has not been altered in any way, shape or form since it was purchased.
    All warning indicators, alarms, lap belts, lights, operator manual and any other safety feature that originally came with the machine are in place and all in good working order.
    The only modifications to the machine are the working red stop lamps that even come on when either break pedal is applied.
    My question is...... by looking at the included pics, can anyone see anything that would render this machine unsafe?



    10709715_861098883921248_17494743_o.jpg 10712086_861098860587917_189762362_o.jpg 10712356_861098850587918_1234079210_o.jpg 10289360_780810745283396_1691057767_o.jpg
     
  2. Nige

    Nige Senior Member

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    Welding that tube - whatever it's for - on to the ROPS legs would do it for me in a heartbeat. I've removed ROPS Certification plates in the past for far less than that.
     
  3. sheepfoot

    sheepfoot Senior Member

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    Like Nige said, you can not weld on the ROPS. That would require a letter from the machine builder, the blue prints, and the cert of the welder that did it. Then it would still be a act of congress to ok it. Even a twist or ding can take one out of service, along with a full fender on one side and a half on the other.
     
  4. Nige

    Nige Senior Member

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    One day I will recount the full story of how I removed the ROPS & Cab Certification Plates from 2 brand-new zero-hour D10R's (t'was a few years ago now) BEFORE the customer even had chance to get them in the dirt ............:D:D
     
  5. td25c

    td25c Senior Member

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  6. Deeretracks

    Deeretracks Senior Member

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    MSHA is very stringent about unauthorized modifications to any ROPS. As soon as you cut, weld, or drill a ROPS w/o 1" thick binder of approvals you have rendered the ROPS unsafe in MSHA's eyes.
     
  7. hmearth

    hmearth Well-Known Member

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    I bet you were popular with the boys
     
  8. JDOFMEMI

    JDOFMEMI Senior Member

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    While I understand that is the rules, per the almighty MSHA, I can't seem to grasp in my mind how the little bit of welding done there has done anything to make the structure unsafe or unsound.

    I have seen severely butchered ROPS, and am quite sure that the rules are in place to prevent them from being used, but to decertify a machine over a fire extinguisher mount, light bracket, or some other minor add on just seems wrong to me. Why can there not be a written exception for non structural items that obviously do not affect the strength and integrity of the unit?

    This is one more example of how "Safety" has gone from a way to keep you safe and transformed into a way for those in charge to keep a boot on your neck.
     
  9. old-iron-habit

    old-iron-habit Senior Member

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    I'm sure its because of improper or unknown welding precedures often used. How many times have you seen a structural crack or break next to a weld that was added or next to a previous fix. An MSHA inspectoris not going to make the determination if the procedure was done correctly or not.
     
  10. Nige

    Nige Senior Member

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    There's the problem. That "little bit of welding" to quote Jerry looks like chicken sh1t on concrete. Would you want your operator to be in that machine if it rolled over and the ROPS structure fell apart like a house of cards.......??

    I appreciate that the above is a very unlikely scenario. However you guys invented the "sue the a$$ of 'em" culture. Would you feel like rolling the dice if you thought you could be taken to the cleaners in court...?

    A further comment about the welding itself. The welder has committed one of the biggest no-no's of welding on a fabricated structure. The welding is transverse to the structure rather than being longitudinal. To correctly weld that tube on the ROPS the welding should have been vertical, but then again looking at the welding quality I'd guess whoever installed it wasn't capable of welding vertical up.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2014
  11. td25c

    td25c Senior Member

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    Is this the weld in question Nige ?

    Looks like a standard single pass with a 6011 rod . They penetrate well and work good for mating two pieces of steel together on a first pass . Now the bead wont look as smooth as other rods like a 7018 or a mig but they are still a sound weld . On vertical generally weld downward .
     

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  12. oldtanker

    oldtanker Senior Member

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    No that is harsh......but so very true!:falldownlaugh

    So if the **** poor welder, had taken the ROP's off. Laid it down where he could have welded it longitudinally with his meager skills and remounted the ROPS it would be OK?

    Rick
     
  13. Nige

    Nige Senior Member

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    If there was an approved procedure to follow for doing a weld in that location on that ROPS "pant leg", and he followed it - yes ..............

    td, I'm sorry I don't care what electrode it was done with - a) it's a very poor quality weld, maybe caused by the fact the welder has tried to fill an non-uniform gap (round tube to flat plate) in one pass, and b) it's transverse to the structure.............

    IMHO vertical down welding is for those people who are incapable of welding vertical up - "the last refuge of the scoundrel".

    Sorry, whichever way you slice it - it's sh1te ............
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2014
  14. oldtanker

    oldtanker Senior Member

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    "If there was an approved procedure to follow for doing a weld in that location on that ROPS "pant leg", and he followed it - yes .............."

    Just too much government intervention here. I can understand that some companies and employers need to be forced into providing as safe as possible working conditions but I think we are getting a little over the top on things. The "approved procedure" part is what gets me. To me this should be straight forward, either you can or cannot weld on that. If you can't fine. There are other ways to mount stuff. Just makes this seem to me that the government is out of control.

    Rick
     
  15. Nige

    Nige Senior Member

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    I was hypothesizing Rick. There is no approved procedure, never has been, and never will be as long as the "see you in court" mentality applies .......... the equipment manufacturers won't wear it.

    In this case I don't think it's your government that's out of control TBH.
     
  16. RollOver Pete

    RollOver Pete Senior Member

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    Thanks for the reply's guys.

    1st, its no secret that I have a short fuse, a big mouth and that I absolutely detest anything shoved down our throats by the federal government. In my opinion, everything from the EPA, DOT, IRS, NSA, MSHA, DOD, .....all of them have gotten way out of control.
    I know people are going to disagree with me and tell me to grow up.....but I really don't care. The fact that some worm with badge and gun suddenly has the power to determine if I get to eat dinner does not sit well with me.
    My tax dollars pay for these fools like the MSHA jerk who think they they are mightier than God .
    You would think that I just slaughtered a church full of baby harp seals the way he ranted and fussed about the "unsafe modifications" done to the ROPS.
    At that point, I just wanted to punch him in his throat. The machine was red tagged and a citation was issued. Oh yeah, truck drivers are to remain in the cab while being loaded.
    An extra set of eyes watching me load rip rap is not safe and is my fault. Yeah....I know, but seriously? I don't know how much the fine will be but the owner will fight it.
    We have a written report by a certified structural engineer bla bla bla who came to our yard and very carefully examined the ROPS, the welds and so on. The paint looks fresh because I removed the paint so he could get a really up close look. $ 300.00 later and the report is in the mail.

    Once upon a time, we were paid an honest days wages for an honest days work.
    We used muscle, diesel and common sense and we got the job done without some worm watching our every move.
    You need a smart phone, GPS and a lawyer to compete today.
    Obamacare, more fees and more taxes.... The war on terrorism and the war on drugs depend on us.:usa


    Well....thats all the venting I needed.
    Hope I didn't insult anyone.....
    I need to go out and purchase a few gallons of pig urine for the green/environmentally friendly particulate filter on wheels that the boss was forced to purchase before it goes into limp mode and the idiot light comes on........ informing me that I just may be an idiot.
     
  17. digger242j

    digger242j Administrator

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    Well, my first reaction was, "Hmmm.... Pete's not in the seat. I need to take a closer look..." :D
     
  18. Bluox

    Bluox Senior Member

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    You've not done much welding have you?
    Bob
     
  19. overworked

    overworked Senior Member

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    I like when MSHA red tags a machine, then tell you that you cannot work on it where its at and it not allowed to be operated.
     
  20. Tiny

    Tiny Senior Member

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    1st off this whole deal is income potential .

    If the machine is involved in an accident they will point to to non standard modification and say this is a sample of how they maintain the machine and we need to make them pay so it's understood that non standard repairs get us paid . Weather or not a 747 fell out of the sky right on top of it or not .

    The company that built the machine will not ok what was done because they will not assume liability on anything . Way better to sell you something else .

    Government loves this because of the income potential . Maybe at one time it was about correction of problems but it's strictly income and that alone .

    What I want to know is ... How have you enough nerve to run a machine that old any way ?? Surely the EPA has told you that machine is too old to be run . It needs to be replaced with a new more better machine .

    Personally that pipe worries me way less that the unknown amount of rust that might be inside that the leg of a rops that has been around that long but that will never be addressed .

    I have seen a LOT of stuff buried over the years because of this crap . Cut something like that off and make it invisible . I can not suggest that but over the years Non standard stuff go's away before it's seen by the money changers