No equipment pricing

[CT18fireman]

My apologies if this is in the wrong forum.
My question involves pricing a job when I can't get a machine in. Let me set teh stage. I have a 7x6ft brick patio set in sand, a three step 6ft wide brick cemented stair and a top landing that is 5x10 of flagstone set in sand or stonedust to demo before building a new one that serves as the front entrance to the house. Building the new one is mostly hand work using Unilock material.

My question is the demoing. Normally I woudl swing in with the backhoe of my tractor and pick the thing apart and then load it into the dumptruck or into a dumpster, and I could price that accordingly. At this job though there is no access to this area except through a 2ft opening in some very nicely built and old stone walls. So the demo is going to have to be done by hand and then the material taken out (75ft) in wheelbarrows to a dumpster (ground level). The mortered brick is old and the morter is mostly craking so I don't think the demoing is going to be that hard, but the trips in the wheelbarrow will be many and Then probably going to have to bring a couple yards of stone and sand back in.

So what do you think would be a fair adjustment for this? I can easily price out the new work, but I always seem to burn myself on demoing like this. Any advice?

 

[Countryboy]

Would a Dingo fit in there or is that too big. I would use one of them instead of a wheelbarrow if I could.

 

[CT18fireman]

That was my first thought, Nope. Even the wheelbarrows are going to be tight, it is downhill laoded which is good and I can ramp up through the opening into the dumpster so that the top of the wheelbarrows will got over the wall and the wheel and braces will fit in the opening.

I don't want to turn this job down, it is an existing lawn customer, it will come out great, they are willing to spend the money and it will elad to other work. I just want to price it fair.

 

[Bob Horrell]

I have a buddy that had a similar job and he rented a conveyor belt system and it worked really slick. It beat the heck out of wheelbarrows. I don't know how that would work in your application, but it isn't expensive and you can arrange them so they go around corners.

 

[wyldman]

We have had similar situations here in the older areas of town.I have seen companies use a crane to lift a bobcat or mini-x into the yard to do the job,then crane it back out.

They then use the equipment to do the demo,collect the debris,and take it right over the fence\wall and into a dumpster or dump truck.It's pretty much a 1 man job if you can get the equipment in.

This job sounds a little small for that though.Depends on what they want to spend.

 

[Ford LT-9000]

My back is hurting just reading that :yup

You might have to us 5 gallon buckets if a wheelbarrow isn't going to work or find yourself a old chunk of carpet to throw the stuff on and slide it to the bin. A tarp works but doesn't last very long with rougher ground or coarse material.

You are going to need to get materials into the back yard or what ever you are working. You might have to hire some young guys with strong backs to help you with the labouring.

What about a lawn tractor with a trailer or is that too tight to get through your opening. Is there anyway of building a dirt ramp over the stone wall ?

There has been jobs here where a crane is brought in to lift a mini or a skid steer into a back yard if there is no other possible access.

 

[greywynd]

In my case I have hourly rates that I also use as well as pricing out jobs. I use hourly for the 'unknowns' or when extras are added to a job. In my case, since I usually only do manual labour (hand work) for clients I like (I make more money on the machine and would rather be doing that), I generally charge $25-35 an hour.

A job like this, I would tell the customer that you'll do it hourly for the demolition, plus extra expenses (if you need to rent a small demolition breaker for example). Since you work with them already, they should have a good idea of your work ethic and not have concerns there. Maybe you can get a labourer or two to do some of the wheelbarrow work (if you don't have them already), of course you charge accordingly, and make a profit on them as well.

Another option may be the big bulk sacks (they are like 4'x4'x4') that some of the companies are using....load all the stuff in them inside the wall....get a company (maybe your stone supplier?) that has a boom truck to lift them out and lift in some with the new material already loaded in them.

Mark

 

[wyldman]

Most of the Unilock (direct) trucks around here have boom cranes,and will crane the material off right where you want it.Some of the new trucks are switching to those rear mounted 3 wheel forklifts for unloading.Might want to ask your supplier if they can bring it on a boom truck.

Some of the garden centers who sell Unilock may also have a boom truck.

Sure would save a lot of labor moving it into the yard.

 

[CT18fireman]

I can get the new materials into the yard using the boom. Now I am thinking about getting those bull bags I have seen on TV. They say they can hold like 3000 punds. Load them up with the waste and have them lifted out.

 

[Ford LT-9000]

Those bulk bags do work but the material you put into them has to flow out nice I don't think rip rap is going to work in them. If they are the same things I'am thinking about they are white in color the are made of a wolven fabric with 4 lifting loops on top. Guys move gravel in those bags to remote locations and have had the bottom let go then you have 3000 of gravel to shovel up.

You have to make sure the bottom is tied well or you maybe lifting a bag over the house and it lets go whoops :roll

A decent sized boom truck is going to be required to lift 2 tons over a house a average stinger truck might not beable to do it.

 

[greywynd]

Ford, I don't think in this particular case it's a long lift, It's strictly over the stone wall with the 2' wide gate opening. As far as disposal of the old material, hopefully he could find some free bags (maybe from the same supplier) and the driver would be willing to lift them into the back of his dump truck/trailer whatever. (I would think that some hioist operators might even be able to dump these as well, would put all the waste loose into your dump that way.)

If you had to you could cut the bags then hook onto them with the truck/excavator etc to empty them. Or depending on the fill site maybe they can be left full, would depend on your area etc. (Here I wouldn't leave the bags, but can dump bricks, concrete etc...so would try to dump the bags somehow, or cut them open to pull them free.)

Mark

 

[Electra_Glide]

In my case I have hourly rates that I also use as well as pricing out jobs. I use hourly for the 'unknowns' or when extras are added to a job. In my case, since I usually only do manual labour (hand work) for clients I like (I make more money on the machine and would rather be doing that), I generally charge $25-35 an hour.

A job like this, I would tell the customer that you'll do it hourly for the demolition, plus extra expenses (if you need to rent a small demolition breaker for example). Since you work with them already, they should have a good idea of your work ethic and not have concerns there. Maybe you can get a labourer or two to do some of the wheelbarrow work (if you don't have them already), of course you charge accordingly, and make a profit on them as well.

This is the route I would go. I use the same labor rates for manual work as Mark suggested. I would think that two guys (one doing the demo and one acting as the "runner") would be able to get this done in less than a day assuming the trip to the dumpster isn't that far. I would probably quote $450-$500 for two laborers (one day), plus the cost of an air hammer ($150), plus the cost of the dumpster ($300). Total cost for demo ~ $900-$950. Yea, you'll be tired.

As far as getting the material back in, this would be a good application for those slinger trucks we've talked about before. Another option might be to see if your local redi-mix company will deliver your sand and gravel in a redi-mix truck. If that doesn't work, then it's back to the wheelbarrow. In these situations, I like to pick up my own materials in my 1-ton, and the just work off the back of the truck.

I did a job like this last season and it was no fun. 28' long x 2.5' high Versa-Lok wall. Everything came in and out out in a wheelbarrow. It wasn't a whole lot of fun, and I don't know if I'd sign up to do it again, but I priced the job accordingly, and made a decent profit.

Good luck...

Joe

 

[Steve Frazier]

The bags that are referenced here are offered by refuse companies, you load them up, they take them away. It's their problem to figure out how to unload them. It sounds like they'd be the ticket for this job.

Another option would be to dismantle an opening in the wall for your machine and equipment to pass through, and then rebuild the wall when finished. You need a good stone guy for this though. I've done this on a few jobs of mine.

 

[jazak]

If the place where you buy the wall block from has a knuckle boom then I would give them a little more $$$$ and just have them lift a dingo over the wall for you. If you don't want to do that the old fashioned wheel barrow will work, so will the bags, or conveyor set. I always seem to pick the one that uses the least amount of sweat.:bouncegri (Helps me out at the end of the day; for some reason I don't feel as tired as I used to. :yup )

 

[Squizzy246B]

What Greywnd said but we would use one of these:

https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=1757&highlight=Muck+Truck

We hire them regularly for about $35 a day and they are no wider than a wheelbarrow. Its amazing how much stuff you can shift with two of these.

 

[jazak]

But are they available here? Looks like a sweet little machine btw.:yup

 

[Ford LT-9000]

We can rent power wheelbarrows they work good they are not exactly as what Squizzy posted but they have two drive wheels and a single steering wheel on the back.

If you got lots of material to move using a regular wheelbarrow is back breaking I have done many jobs moving tons of material with one. We have a nickname for a wheelbarrow but I got in trouble saying it.

 

[CT18fireman]

Lots of suggestions, thanks.

First let me say this is a small job, so some of the options, while creative would be not financially smart.

This is what I have come up with I am going to get the bull bags that are sold through the Home Depot dumpster company. I am going wheelbarrow about 20 feet to the wall and load the bags. I figure three bags as more then enough. I already talk to the paver deliverer. He is going to boom the pallets in over the wall so we just have to move them 20 ft. Then he is going to lift out the bags (I know and trust him) then I will call Bull Bag to come pick them from the drive. So we will have to wheelbarrow 1 yard of sand and one of stone, but we can load the wheelbarrows right off the one ton, using the coal chute so it won't be too bad. Not the best, but it will cause the least damage.

I did the estimate up and figured my time to demo as hourly. When I repsented it to them today I told them that was hte only unknown. I am basing it on what I think it is made up of, but being 50+ years old I am not sure what I will find when the demo starts. They understood and are going to pick new materials this weekend. I got the deposit.

 

[Countryboy]

Glad to hear you got everything lined up. :thumbsup

Now hopefully the demo will go as planned. :yup

 

[smalltime]

Electric or propane excavators????

I have a similiar problem, I have a job inside of a mall. It will require the use of an excavtor (or a lot of shovels). I can fit my machine inside, but the exhaust will create a problem. In order to do the job I need something that runs off of electricity or maybe something that is propane powered. Does anyone know if either exist?