no engine start = no boom lift = no troubleshooting

[Case1840BC]

Hello everyone, this Friday my 1994 Case 1840 died suddenly at the bottom of my steep driveway while lifting up a bucket full of snow. It is about 300 yards from the house, the engine was already warm because it was pushing snow in front of it all the way down but it would not fire up again. This happened the fist time ever, fuel tank almost full, temperature slightly below freezing, engine oil, coolant everything OK, no prior warning light on the instrument panel. The loader was operating absolutely normally till the engine stopped it all of sudden when it started lifting up the bucket (which it did approximately 2 feet up). After that the starter would turn the engine without any problem but the engine would not start. Not even tried, no puff, nothing. With the boom almost down there is no way I could see or reach or test the fuel solenoid under the Lucas injection pump or the fuel filter. Every troubleshooting on the skid steer starts by lifting the boom and sliding the cabin out to get access to wires, connectors, terminals, fuel pump and lines etc. What is one to do in a situation like this when the warm engine will not fire up even after a very short burst of ether while it is facing downward on a down sloped ground in front of 6 feet tall pile of snow. I have combed through many posts here and found some where guys were able to reach or even replace the fuel shut off solenoid but here I can see the wire bending down and disappearing under the injector pump but there is no way I could see there or reach or fit any tool there or even an LED tester to check if there is 12 Volts with the ignition key on. This is really stressful situation, I am located near the Monashee mountains in southern British Columbia. The winter just barely started and without clean driveway to reach the public road to the town (about 5 miles away) everything becomes really difficult so any idea is deeply appreciated.

Thank you

 

[skata]

I'm not familiar with your machine, but like you said, I'd be inspecting the fuel shutoff solenoid first. But you say it won't fire at all with ether? That is strange. Could a timing chain have snapped? Do you get any puffing out the exhaust?

 

[thepumpguysc]

That’s a horrible situation.!!
U can’t diagnose anything if u can’t reach anything.. & most everything is a 2 man job..
It’s possible that the fuel gelled on u.?? The best thing I’ve heard of that works is PowerService 911..
and it’s readily available at most big box stores (Walmart) and auto parts stores..
I feel for ya brother..
I think your engine has a squeeze bulb.?? but even if you could reach it, it’ll probably be frozen..
If u manage to dig a way in there, have someone turn the key on and off several times and listen for the shut off solenoid clicking on and off..OR.. worse comes to worse, run a 12v hot wire off the + battery post to the spade on the solenoid and listen for a click..
Again, good luck..

 

[hookedondiesel]

Wow, really sorry to hear this situation of your's, like thepumpguy said, throw some 911 in there to start. Maybe drain some fuel from the drain plug to see how much water is in there, if any. I've had this same situation before, but it did give me some warning's, slow down of engine etc, found out later there was crap in the fuel tank. Especially driving down hill etc, things get moved around. I noticed you have chains front and rear, could also be a wire became dis-logged, like the fuel solenoid, hope you get this back home to inspect properly. Let us know what caused this, will ya.

 

[Case1840BC]

Thanks guys for your responses, really appreciate them. Never heard of PowerService 911 before, good to know. The nearest Walmart is about 100 miles from here but will check if the local Napa store has it. I decided first to use 18 hp ride on snow blower to clean up the driveway because the skid steer died at the end of first pass down and the bucket is only about 60" wide so the car would not fit in . As the bucket moves forward it also pushes lots of snow to the sides and makes high banks of compacted snow on both sides so the augers kept biting in the banks and the drive belt was often slipping and I had to slow down really substantially not to damage it or burn it. It took 5 hours up and down to clean up the driveway as it is on the picture. Then I drained the fuel tank - not a very nice looking sludge and some water came out down the drain plug. Then I poured some Seafoam fuel treatment I had at home. Then I shoveled out all the snow from the bucket planning to build a tall A frame with a pulley at the top and 10 ton swing stage to force lift the boom. The bucket with grapple is really heavy but I was hopping 10 ton would do the job. I brought telescopic inspection mirror and was able to see both the oil pressure sensor and the fuel solenoid. Using hot wire I could hear the solenoid clicking but it didn't fire up before using ether while the engine was still warm so I didn't think it would be a fuel issue. Regarding the chains - without them it is impossible to do anything here. There are days when the snow coming down is wet or even with rain and the water freezes up as it hits ground and keeps making layer of ice under the snow so chains are essential. As I started building a foundation for the A frame and removing all the snow around to get to the ground it started looking like a lots of work and lots of running up and down on that long driveway so on a spur of a moment I turn the ignition key again and the engine fired up like it never stopped for a second. I waited for the engine to warm up and then turned around and started driving up hill, worried if it will die in the steepest sections it will block the driveway completely and create bigger problem then down the road. But it was running like a clock all the way up so I had no choice then to test if it will keep running when warm and lifting buckets full snow. So I kept going up around the house and parking area for almost 3 hours pushing and lifting old heavy icy snow and the engine was just running perfectly smoothly. So now I am confused, it never happened before, I didn't fix anything, I didn't locate any problem or found the cause of the problem so my confidence in the machine is a little bit shaken up. I would rather the problem stayed there till it can be determined exactly what it was. This way I am glad I did not have to build time consuming structure just to lift the boom but on the other hand it really bothers me that the engine died all of a sudden while lifting up the bucket and would not start again even with a squirt of ether while the starter was turning over the engine. So what now? Is it possible / feasible to buy a 12 volts electric hydraulic pump and make a connection ports to the system to create enough pressure to lift the boom in case the engine does not fire up in order to drive the small equipment pump in the back of the skid steer? Would the battery have enough power to drive such pump to produce enough volume with enough pressure? Kind of hook up other external 12 V hydraulic pump in parallel to the existing one by the means of quick connects similar to connecting auxiliary equipment. For most users such idea might be utter overkill but when you live in conditions like here something like that would give you the confidence you can get quickly to the guts, troubleshoot, identify what you need and order the parts instead of dancing around 6 tons of freezing steel trying to figure out how to get it out of your only access driveway so you can go and buy some food or fuel or parts etc. So guys thank you for your responses, it is great to get ideas flowing when something like this happens !

 

[thepumpguysc]

That 911 just melts frozen fuel in filtered and lines and dispensers water..
I’m wondering if the sea foam did the same.??
Glad u got her going.!!

 

[hookedondiesel]

Nice to hear your back in the saddle. I think I noticed on mine an inline fuel filter, might want to check out your's. On your hydraulic question, maybe a 12 volt winch on the roof etc, disconnect the hydraulic lines and lift etc.

 

[Case1840BC]

I poured the Sea foam in the tank, that was the only place I had access to at that point so it had no chance of getting in the fuel filter and lines because the engine started the next day on the first try. But I will get a can of that, it's always good to have such stuff handy.
About that winch - the pulley would have be high enough above the roof to lift the boom enough to get the safety support engaged and the room to roll the cabin out but the idea about lifting the boom only after disconnecting the hydraulic lines makes this emergency step actually practical and realistic without tapping into the existing hydraulic system which is not easily done out in the open. I will draw a sketch, take some measurements, get few lengths of a thick wall gas pipe and try to put something together. Other way could possibly be lifting it from below. My 20 ton manual hydraulic bottle jack lifts the whole skid steer like a toy but only by few inches. I just measure and the minimum clearance of the boom joint needs to 100 inches above ground to get the safety support engaged so depending on how high the bucket is when something like that happens one would need bunch of extensions or once lifted sufficiently use a taller jack with bigger lift range.