New Case Skids ?

[CRAFT]

My Buddy with a '93 1845c (he purchased new) went to ILKenworth last week and had (Finally) the opportunity to try out a new 185 case full meal deal machine.

I was shocked at the feedback he gave me :

He firstly found that the hand controls were very hard to feel the machines functions (way worse than my A-300 when he first tried it out) ..... keep in mind that he is by NO MEANS a newby to hand controls, and not to stuborn to retrain the brain,.... he was pretty much my mentor 30yrs ago for me with Excavators, Bunchers and dangle head processors .... secondly he noted his dissapointment in the lessor ground clearance compaired to his 1845c saying that the new 185 is only equiped with 10x16.5 tires again compaire to the aged 1845's 12x16.5 tires ...29"vs 33"diam ..... even the Case 200/220 had 10x16.5's .... wtf is up with that ??.... he mentioned that he was not prepared to change over all the extras he has aquired such as the extra set of spare tires and rims c/w full sets of chains he has for the 1845 ...... another thing he was shocked with .... was how much narrower the 185 was at only 66" compaired to the stablility of the 1845's 72" width ??? ..... we know that wheel spacers would correct that BUT ???

I found he was very dissapointed and is now looking into a way to install a pressurized cab c/w air on the 'ol girl rather than have to cough up ~$30,000 to have What ?


This is not a slam to Case just shocked at his responce ...... he does not want to go to the large frame skids to have the items mentioned above.

JMHO observation .......cheers:drinkup

 

[Goose]

Tell him not to give up on CASE after checking this one machine. The 185 comes with the 12.00 x 16.5 tires. We have not even had the smaller tires like this in our yard as they are not common on this size of machine. The 175 and 185 either come with mechanical controls or electro over hydraulic. The 200 comes with servo controls just like the 1845C or E/H controls. I havent adapted to the E/H controls yet as there is a lag in the response. Have him try out a 200 with the right size tires and servo controls and he should fell right at home coming out of an 1845C plus he cab get all the features the 45C is missing cab,A/C 2 speed etc. If he wants the E/H controls they have made changes to the speed and control sensitivity on machines made after the first of august so you can tailor the controls to the operators liking.

 

[KSSS]

Tell him not to give up on CASE after checking this one machine. The 185 comes with the 12.00 x 16.5 tires. We have not even had the smaller tires like this in our yard as they are not common on this size of machine. The 175 and 185 either come with mechanical controls or electro over hydraulic. The 200 comes with servo controls just like the 1845C or E/H controls. I havent adapted to the E/H controls yet as there is a lag in the response. Have him try out a 200 with the right size tires and servo controls and he should fell right at home coming out of an 1845C plus he cab get all the features the 45C is missing cab,A/C 2 speed etc. If he wants the E/H controls they have made changes to the speed and control sensitivity on machines made after the first of august so you can tailor the controls to the operators liking.

What Goose said.

Thats why its important for sales people to interact with customers on a demo. All of these 'issues" could easily be answered by a competent sales rep. The machines come with a variety of tire sizes (I see no benefit of the 10X16 tires for most applications). They can also be had in a variety of widths. I have with most of my CASE machines since the XT machines, been able to flip my rims for more or less width. My 465 goes from 73" wide to about 80 plus inches wide (for running tracks) just by flipping the tires around.

The CASE E/H system has been continually evolving since they released it. I try to stay up on such things and even I even struggle to stay current. Here is what I do know. A couple weeks ago I spent about 30 min. with my sales guy setting the parameters for my E/H response time, sensitivity and speed in my TR320. I really like how you can make that machine react exactly how you want it to. If a salesguy drops a machine with E/H off without helping him set the machine to respond the way customer wants or expects, your simply assuming that he will like it the way the machine was preset. Especially coming from a servo machine its very important that the demo machine is set to perform the way the customer expects it to be. Going from servo to E/H can really be a wake up call and most guys are not that receptive to it at first, however if you set the machine up correctly for the customer, you can smooth out that "control shock" that most servo guys get with the first time in an E/H machine.

 

[kuangqy]

case185 and bobcat 300 both mechanical controls, way worse than A-300?

 

[Jeepwalker]

Can you still get mechanical controls on a Case skid? What was the last model/Yr mech controls were avail?

 

[KSSS]

Can you still get mechanical controls on a Case skid? What was the last model/Yr mech controls were avail?

They are still available on the new Alpha series. Only the tracked machines are E/H only.

 

[Goose]

We just got a bulletin last month say they are offering servo controls on the track machine now. E/H is standard and servo is optional and a deduct.

 

[stuvecorp]

We just got a bulletin last month say they are offering servo controls on the track machine now. E/H is standard and servo is optional and a deduct.

So say a SV300, that could be had with the same controls as my 440S3(typical case controls)?

 

[Goose]

Yes the SV300 can be set up with H pattern controls (typical case controls). Either E/H or servo.

 

[stuvecorp]

Yes the SV300 can be set up with H pattern controls (typical case controls). Either E/H or servo.

Ooh, I like that. Someone needs my 440S3 now...

 

[KSSS]

We just got a bulletin last month say they are offering servo controls on the track machine now. E/H is standard and servo is optional and a deduct.

See what I mean, its hard to stay on top of things they change so often.

 

[CRAFT]

case185 and bobcat 300 both mechanical controls, way worse than A-300?

Yahh ! ...the brand new Case 185 w/every bell and whistle and My Bcat A-300 are both EH controls ....it was a comparison .... and your question WAS ????


Ksss ...... I remember my Bcat before they did an update to it .... it only had only EH setting .... after the update it now has three, which basically adjust the responce speed of the EH controls ......I agree with you ..... the Dealer sales man should have been better informed to adjust the machine to suit the operators wants ..... the tires that were on that unit were a standard issue and showed no optional sizes ..... if they did offer the larger 12x16.5 would it not raise the Q/A height as well, throwing off the attack angles of the buckets or do they replace the Q/A to lower it back to a stock height ??? ..... obviously the dealer dork did not know ...... when asked for the most current updated brochure he went and downloaded an info sheet off of Ritche Bros. web site commenting that the info there was better than they had ???? ...WTF ???? ....LOL .......

I just assumed that seeing that they just got the 185,200 and 220 in stock that they would have been the most current models available, with all current updates ..... He waited along time to try them out to be disapointed ....... we added up the cost to change over things ...hmmmm ...not cost effective

 

[stuvecorp]

Yahh ! ...the brand new Case 185 w/every bell and whistle and My Bcat A-300 are both EH controls ....it was a comparison .... and your question WAS ????


Ksss ...... I remember my Bcat before they did an update to it .... it only had only EH setting .... after the update it now has three, which basically adjust the responce speed of the EH controls ......I agree with you ..... the Dealer sales man should have been better informed to adjust the machine to suit the operators wants ..... the tires that were on that unit were a standard issue and showed no optional sizes ..... if they did offer the larger 12x16.5 would it not raise the Q/A height as well, throwing off the attack angles of the buckets or do they replace the Q/A to lower it back to a stock height ??? ..... obviously the dealer dork did not know ...... when asked for the most current updated brochure he went and downloaded an info sheet off of Ritche Bros. web site commenting that the info there was better than they had ???? ...WTF ???? ....LOL .......

I just assumed that seeing that they just got the 185,200 and 220 in stock that they would have been the most current models available, with all current updates ..... He waited along time to try them out to be disapointed ....... we added up the cost to change over things ...hmmmm ...not cost effective

That is so frustrating to hear. You have a 'Case' customer and the salesman manages to scare him off. Has your friend ever tried a 440 Case?

 

[Goose]

Craft: When you chang tire sizes you do change the Q/A height. You also need to change out the loader down stops to bring your bucket back to plane for the size of tires on the machine.

 

[KSSS]

I am not sure where the information came from on the optional tire sizes. However if you go to the CASE website click on skid steers and download the spec and accessories in the PDF form under tire selection you can see that 12X16.5 are available. I am not sure what RB's site has to do with anything. The dealer for whatever reason had chosen to order those machines with the small tires, not the end of the world, thats an easy fix. The engagement angle is not going to change the dynamics of the machine enough to make a difference. When I put the VTS on my 440 it substantially changed the engagement angle, not an issue once you get a feel for the new bucket position when grading. As far as the machines being up to date they may have been, but if your not familiar with how the E/H controls adjust or operate it wont mean much to your friend. Thats what the salesman is for.

Did the salesman ever adjust the machines E/H controls for your friend? Did your friend just drive around the lot or was this a legitiment demo? Even after the controls are set, you dont just jump into an E/H machine (anyones E/H) and run like the same pro you were on your servo machine. There is some time required to acclimate to those controls.

I knew that making those updates to a 1845C would not be feasible if even possible. The Alpha series machines are very impressive, but like most everyones machines, gone are the days when you can have a salesman toss you the keys, tool around the lot and make a buying decision. The machines are a lot more complex and frankly not as intuitive in their operation (many more buttons and options) as an 1845C was. If his first exposure to one of these machines was a quick spin, he should have the machine properly set up for how he wants it to run, and then spend a day with it. After he does that, I doubt he would take it back. I like the 220 best myself of those machines, but all of them are more powerful more comfortable and more productive than the 1845C he currently has. If he wants to get close to the control feel of the 1845C than he should demo a machine with the servo controls, but if he give the EH a chance with the help of a competent salesman I think E/H wins out.

 

[CRAFT]

Craft: When you chang tire sizes you do change the Q/A height. You also need to change out the loader down stops to bring your bucket back to plane for the size of tires on the machine.

We are aware of that, that the Q/A height should be compensated, but as we talked about it, why should he have to do it and not have it offered by the dealer ? .... we did not even know that this was even an option

That is so frustrating to hear. You have a 'Case' customer and the salesman manages to scare him off. Has your friend ever tried a 440 Case?

MY buddy wants to stick with the 17-1800lb lift machines, and not get into a large frame heavier loader for the type of work he does ..... I forgot to mention that he also has the D-100 hoe attachment and will change the mounting to suit a new unit

I am not sure where the information came from on the optional tire sizes. However if you go to the CASE website click on skid steers and download the spec and accessories in the PDF form under tire selection you can see that 12X16.5 are available. I am not sure what RB's site has to do with anything. The dealer for whatever reason had chosen to order those machines with the small tires, not the end of the world, thats an easy fix. The engagement angle is not going to change the dynamics of the machine enough to make a difference. When I put the VTS on my 440 it substantially changed the engagement angle, not an issue once you get a feel for the new bucket position when grading. As far as the machines being up to date they may have been, but if your not familiar with how the E/H controls adjust or operate it wont mean much to your friend. Thats what the salesman is for.

Did the salesman ever adjust the machines E/H controls for your friend? Did your friend just drive around the lot or was this a legitiment demo? Even after the controls are set, you dont just jump into an E/H machine (anyones E/H) and run like the same pro you were on your servo machine. There is some time required to acclimate to those controls.

I knew that making those updates to a 1845C would not be feasible if even possible. The Alpha series machines are very impressive, but like most everyones machines, gone are the days when you can have a salesman toss you the keys, tool around the lot and make a buying decision. The machines are a lot more complex and frankly not as intuitive in their operation (many more buttons and options) as an 1845C was. If his first exposure to one of these machines was a quick spin, he should have the machine properly set up for how he wants it to run, and then spend a day with it. After he does that, I doubt he would take it back. I like the 220 best myself of those machines, but all of them are more powerful more comfortable and more productive than the 1845C he currently has. If he wants to get close to the control feel of the 1845C than he should demo a machine with the servo controls, but if he give the EH a chance with the help of a competent salesman I think E/H wins out.

As far as the RB site went ...neither do we ... that's simply what the sales man did ...... he also did not want to waste time to do a longer term demo with a machine that he did not want with the wrong features on it
As I mentioned before he is NO Rookie to EH controls, just that the first impresion of the new skid was not a great experience ...... he also wants to get away from the fatigue of servos with the EH system ......... we'll just have to go togeather and take a day to play with them to find out for sure ...... maybe seek out a competant sales guy while we're at it ...LOL

 

[KSSS]

As I mentioned before he is NO Rookie to EH controls, just that the first impresion of the new skid was not a great experience ...... he also wants to get away from the fatigue of servos with the EH system ......... we'll just have to go togeather and take a day to play with them to find out for sure ...... maybe seek out a competant sales guy while we're at it ...LOL

Indeed, finding a competent sales guy would be quite enlightening. Just out of curiousity, was the dealership you were at an Ag dealer or a full line construction dealer?

 

[CRAFT]

Indeed, finding a competent sales guy would be quite enlightening. Just out of curiousity, was the dealership you were at an Ag dealer or a full line construction dealer?

Nothing Ag ...... Full line big logging and construcion Case and Link Belt .... BUT primarily the Kenworth Dealer for all of B.C. ..... seems that they don't really have the smaller construction savy ...LOL

 

[majah94]

Hey guys. We have rented a TV380 to use on our jobsite up here. I was a little frustrated with the controls but saw a mention of being able to change the response. Can anyone post how to do that?
Other than the controls the machine isn't bad. Thing can push better than most machines of comparable size. Ride is pretty good. I'm can only compare it to an old T300 and a 289 Cat. Just would like a little quicker response on the controls.

 

[Goose]

majah94 I can send you the directions to change the speed and sensitivity. The machine will have to be brand new or have the updated software loaded in it for all of it to work. The speed software came out last summer and the sensitivity came out the last part of the year. PM me your email and I will get you the instructions.