If your powers that be want a fast and complete replacement, I'd recommend that you contact a couple of different Cat houses and ask for their pricing on the exact engine you need.
Thanks for the advice, but it isn't quite that simple. The arrangement used in a D8N is kind of rare, at least as far as replacement engines go. We were able to find 1 engine of the correct arrangement in all of North America. They wanted about US$22K for it, plus our core. And it would have taken a week or so to complete and dyno. And the warranty was only so so.
The thing that broke that deal was shipping. It was down in Texas and we are in Canada. We'd have to pay shipping both ways, plus getting two blocks over the border, etc.
Funny as it may seem, there are tons of things different on all Cat products from one to another, even on things that, to the naked eye, look identical. Worst of it is that some of the differences do not become apparent until right up to the last minute as you begin bolting on the last items and they don’t fit right. That's when you slap yourself and say, "why did I do this to myself?" Been there and done that.
Well... it turns out that unless you hire someone and pay them some pretty big bucks to take care of it for you, it pays to do this yourself. It would be nice to just swing by a Cat dealer and pick up a replacement engine, but money doesn't grow on trees.
It turned out that they got the job done without using this dozer, so it wasn't a huge rush anymore.
Your best bet for a fast and relatively easy job would be an complete exchange engine in the crate. That gives you a decent warranty and it is guaranteed to bolt up.
Have you priced out a genuine Cat "crate" long block with turbo, fuel pump, water pump, oil cooler and oil pump lately ?
But for an early serial number machine like yours, there may also be some good used take-out engines available.
Our engine didn't have a ton of hours on it and it failed. Rebuilders told us they see it quite frequently on the 3406C. The suspected culprit is that one of the pistons lost oil cooling and seized. Apparently there has been a change up on the newer blocks and the truck engines so that this doesn't happen. The rest of the dozer is in good shape. We want a good engine for it. We did not want a "take out".
I don't know if those would be in your immediate area. You can look in Machinery Trader, Rock & Dirt, or My Little Salesman for those however. Your local Cat house can also help you look for a running take out, might even find one with a thirty day warranty. There may be some freight involved and it may take some time to arrive.
We looked at all these options. We are either going to use the 3ZJ engine or rebuild ours.
Having your dealer do a complete rebuild with a new or exchange block is also a good option. Warranty is usually not so good. But, the engine will bolt up and operate correctly. Make sure they do a dyno test!
Shop time at a Cat dealer is extremely expensive up here. $200/hour. We were going to get the 3406E dynoed and have the power checked. It needed to be turned down. They wanted $2,000 just to do that. Can you imagine what it would cost to have an entire engine rebuilt and dyno'd at those rates ?
We found a good engine rebuilder. They are local and they have done lots of 3406s. We'll be working with them.
As I mentioned, swapping engines of the same basic model sounds like it ought to be easy, but it's rare to find two alike unless they are in exactly the same serial and arrangement number range.
Yes and no. Most of the time the arrangement numbers refer to the accessories hung on a standard block with a pretty standard cylinder and piston kit in them. Details like cams and stuff vary, but not as much as you'd think. What does vary is the fuel pump settings, injectors, bell housings, especially on industrial engines, front drives, etc.
It seems like as long as you stay in the same engine family, ie 3406C with the same block, a lot can be made to work. With the 3ZJ, I think the block, pistons, cylinders, heads, crank, oil pump, etc. should be fine. I'm not sure about the front drive and the pan. We'll have to put on our intake and exhaust manifolds, fuel pump, flywheel housing and flywheel. No big deal, as long as it fits.
With the 3406E, it was a different story. The bellhousing and such were fine. But according to Cat it needed a different starter, alternator, rad, fan drive, etc. We couldn't find those parts used and they were very expensive to buy new.
The 3ZJ engine is in the middle of a complete rebuild. We got it at a decent price and if it works, we'll have a completely rebuilt engine for our dozer.
Actually, the arrangement number is the more important of the two with Cat. I've done a couple that worked out OK, they were on smaller Deere Equipment. I tried it on a couple of International loaders with bad results. I looked at doing it with some Cat machines, and in fact worked on one 651 that had it's D346 swapped out for a 12V71 Detroit. That was very costly and it never worked very well. Even trying to swap a newer arrangement number component into an older arrangement tractor is often not feasible even though the tractor serial numbers are only off by one or two digits.
I've done one engine swap and people in my family have done several, all with Cummins engines. They've worked out very well. I briefly considered putting an N14 or ISX into this dozer, but that is where it ended. Engine swaps take more fabrication than anything.
I'll let you know how we make out so that we can all learn something from this.
BTW: I am very disappointed that we had this issue at all. I think its unacceptable for a modern engine to fail like this. I could understand the engine had lots of hours on it and it needed a rebuild or something. But the piston seized and it threw a rod and busted the block. That is an entirely different story.
when you have the experience and access to the info, but that is still some impressive info in my opinion. :notworthy :drinkup
