• Thank you for visiting HeavyEquipmentForums.com! Our objective is to provide industry professionals a place to gather to exchange questions, answers and ideas. We welcome you to register using the "Register" icon at the top of the page. We'd appreciate any help you can offer in spreading the word of our new site. The more members that join, the bigger resource for all to enjoy. Thank you!

Military D7F Dozer Recoil Springs

salkan

Active Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2013
Messages
28
Location
kansas
Occupation
farm
Hello everone
I have some trouble with the tracks comming off of the front idlers. I did a complete undercarraige job aprox. 400 hours ago. Been cleaning ponds and in some areas there is a fair amount of greasy muck. Both times the tracks came in on the side of the nose. One guy told me he thought that the recoil springs had a set to them and was not doing their job. The tracks were replaced with cat classic salt rails and were adjusted to specs. Anyone else had this issue. Also the springs are not broken. Thanks for any advice one of you may have.
 

big ben

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2010
Messages
354
Location
Vancouver Island
Yes I have had this issue with a D7R once. You say there was a complete u/c job recently so front idler bearings and track tension are not an issue. The one that I had with only one track coming off was both the "twister resistors" or front track frame locks were worn and the front idler was rolling side to side ever so slightly and causing the track to come off.
 

Cat_man320

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2012
Messages
175
Location
Canada
I bet they are only coming off when in reverse and your turning the machine . i was having the same issue so i had a piece of 1" thick steel rolled to the diameter of the idler (center piece) and welded it on . I also improved my track guards up by the idlers so when the track moved in or out it would strike the guards .
 

DPete

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2007
Messages
1,677
Location
Central Ca.
Well, that's dissapointing on a new undercarriage, the recoil springs job is to hold the idler out where it is adjusted to and retract in extreme track lock conditions such as sand locking or debris in the sprocket or bushings. If you have a broken spring or springs they are weak in tension and can allow the idler to retract when it should not. The track can look fine when the machine is at rest but loosen under a hard pull or while turning because of reduced tension. You state they are not broken, how do you know this?
 

John C.

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2007
Messages
12,872
Location
Northwest
Occupation
Machinery & Equipment Appraiser
I can think of a couple of issues. There are springs in the idler blocks that push down on a plate with metal pucks that fit up into the spring holes. I've seen plenty of those plates get lost or forgotten when the idlers were reinstalled. Did you weld up the rails inside the track frames and grind them flat and true where the idler blocks ride and did you properly shim the blocks into place for both alignment side to side and for tilt?

Finally I seem to recall that you had a high and low position that the idler could be installed in. As I recall the idler was supposed to be in the low position if the machine was primarily used for dozing and the high position for ripping or draw bar work.

Just some thoughts from a long time ago.

Good Luck!
 

salkan

Active Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2013
Messages
28
Location
kansas
Occupation
farm
I took the top covers off the top of the recoil springs no broken springs. The machine what should I say has a jump to it when pushing on solid ground didnt have this issue before the undercarraige change but put new grosures on as the old ones were worn and had a thick width to them (exterme pads from the military?) The new grousers have a lot of bite to them. Thanks
 

salkan

Active Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2013
Messages
28
Location
kansas
Occupation
farm
Replaced the flat bars and a couple of the triangle pieces that weld inside the track frame. Everthing was shimmed by a cat mechanic and the front idler are set in the low posistion. This dozer has a three shank ripper on back but was not using it when the tracks came off. Thanks for your kind advice
 

DPete

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2007
Messages
1,677
Location
Central Ca.
If Cat did the undercarriage you need to call them about it, the track should not come off, something's wrong someplace. While most of my experience has been with D8's I have never thrown a track in 39 years
 

OzDozer

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Messages
2,207
Location
Perth, Western Australia.
Occupation
Semi-Retired ..
There can be a number of things that cause tracks to come off, but usually, the primary reason is badly worn undercarriage. You should not have tracks coming off with new undercarriage if the repairs were done correctly and comprehensively.
Working in mud is hard on undercarriage and facilitates tracks coming off, if anything is out of alignment. There are several areas to look at:

1. Track frame toe-in/toe-out. If you have worn bushes in the outer hub of the sprocket (where the track frame pivots) - or worn bearing shells in the diagonal braces that are bolted to the inner part of the dead axle - then you will possibly have excessive toe-in or toe-out of the track frames that will be assisting the tracks to come off. Check the toe-in/toe-out by driving forward and stopping, and measuring across the center of the tracks, front and rear. Then reverse up, stop and measure again. Compare the front and rear measurements, there should not be more than about an inch difference. If there's 2" or more, the outer hub bearings need replacement, and possibly the diagonal brace shells as well.

2. You may have a bent dead axle. This is not uncommon. This will also appear as a wide variation in toe-in/toe-out measurement - but there will be little or no wear in the hub bearings or diagonal brace shells.
The only way a bent dead axle can be repaired is to split the track, remove the track frame, dismantle the final drive, pull the dead axle, and straighten it by pressing or building up and re-machining.

3. You may have broken or badly worn idler guides. Check that the idler guide manganese wear plates are still in place in the guides. These small wear plates are tack-welded to the blocks on the track frame, and to the cast frames that locate the idler.
If these wear plates are badly worn or missing, the idler will tilt from the vertical in the track frame, and this will assist in the track coming off.

4. You may have a twisted track frame. This is also not uncommon. The two projecting sections of the forward part of the track frame (that go each side of the front idler) have a tendency to twist.
If this part of the track frame is twisted, the idler won't sit vertical, and will not be vertically inline with the sprocket and track rollers.
The fix is to split the track, remove the idler, and shim the idler guides to bring the idler back to vertical.
In severe cases, the idler may have to be removed and the ends of the track frame heated and straightened.

5. You may have bent carrier roller supports. This is not uncommon. The carrier roller supports bend downwards and the carrier rollers then become misaligned with the sprocket and idler, leading to sideways pressure on the track chain.
Any time an undercarriage renewal takes place, a string line needs to be positioned from the centerline of the sprocket to the centerline of the idler (both top and bottom), to ensure correct track roller, sprocket and idler alignment.

6. You may have a bent idler push rod. This is the rod that goes between the idler yoke and the hydraulic track adjuster. It's not uncommon for this rod to bend and cause the idler to twist sideways inside the track frame.
This will assist with making the track come off. The rod usually bends right near where it fits in the idler yoke.

I hope this give you some more ideas on where to check. Come on back with what you find.

Regards - Ron.
 
Last edited:

Bruce Higgins

Active Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2012
Messages
37
Location
missouri
Just another really off the wall thought. Did they collapse the recoil springs and tighten the nut that holds them collapsed? If they did and didn't release them their could be your problem.
 

salkan

Active Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2013
Messages
28
Location
kansas
Occupation
farm
I should be able to work on it next week. I will do a follow up post and also try to show a few pics of the machine. This has been a good site for info and I really do thank all of you for the input.
 

OzDozer

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Messages
2,207
Location
Perth, Western Australia.
Occupation
Semi-Retired ..
Always keep in mind that working in deep mud is very hard on undercarriage. It can be quite abrasive (depending on the grit content of the soil) - but it tests seals to the limit, and clogs up the entire undercarriage by penetrating into every nook and cranny of the track frame.
Deep mud effectively tightens the track, so it pays to run tracks a little on the loose side if you have a day of paddling in it. A track tightened by mud will place excessive pressure on final drive bearings, the dead axle, and on carrier roller shafts & roller supports.
I found that carrier rollers have a tendency to bend downwards when working in lots of deep mud, and the undercarriage is bound up with it. The top of the track becomes much tighter than normal, and this places downwards pressure on carrier rollers.
The mud lubricates the rails and roller treads, and exacerbates any problems that involve track misalignment - thus making the tracks come off, where they wouldn't, in normal dry dirt conditions.
Working and turning on steep slopes, in deep mud, will most certainly make tracks come off, if there's anything moderately wrong with their tightness, or anything wrong with the track frame alignment.
 

JDOFMEMI

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2007
Messages
3,074
Location
SoCal
It seems most of my ideas have been posted, but I would be interested in what the problem turns out to be.

As far as the spring being unbroken because you pulled the inspection cover, that does not always tell the story. I had an occasion on a D-8K where the spring was broken, but you could not see the break. Also, you could pump up the tracks to the proper tension and they would hold for a while, then loose tension. The broken spring was aligned in a way that held pressure until it moved just right then the broken ends would slide past each other in the barrel.

I had that happen on a remote destert job with only a couple of days left to finish and welded a solid block from the yoke to the frame to hold the idler where it belonged, then re welded it several times a day to finish the job and get it moved to a more convenient place to fix.

I have had tracks decide to come off due to most of the reasons listed above by OzDozer, JohnC, and big ben. They never fall off where the going is easy.
 

salkan

Active Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2013
Messages
28
Location
kansas
Occupation
farm
Got the old girl in my shop now. I will let you all know when we find something. Did drive the dozer back and forward measuring the tracks for toe in and tow out as ozdozer suggested. No more than one half inch difference. That made me feel a little better. Thanks to all
 

DPete

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2007
Messages
1,677
Location
Central Ca.
Not sure of the 7F spring arrangement but on the 8K's there was an outer and inner spring, 2 per side. Keep in mind those springs are dangerous and need the correct tooling to remove and replace should that be the issue
 

HATCHEQUIP

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2011
Messages
1,227
Location
VILLANOW GEORGIA
OZ HAVE YOU EVER SEEN HOLES IN PADS to let the mud squeeze out on that size dozer I have on smaller dozers and loaders but not the larger size
 

salkan

Active Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2013
Messages
28
Location
kansas
Occupation
farm
Well its been awile since my post on this dozer. Realigned track frame to sprocket. The big issuse is that I removed the rock gaurds when i replaced undercarriage. Someone told me to leave them off due to mud build up. The mistake
i made was not to replace the rock guards with any other rail guards so all i have is a tire changing machine. Would like to put new bolt on guards but all the ones i have seen are the weld on type. Could cut the rock guards but would like to avoid that anyone have any suggestions. And thanks for all the help. I did all the undercarraiage work myself.
 

Construct'O

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2007
Messages
928
Location
SW Iowa
Occupation
Dozerwork,tiling plus many more!!!!!!!
Are you talking about the full length rock guards,or the short track rail guards in the front by the idler and the one at the rear by the sprocket.If it is the short ones you need them to keep the tracks in line.The full length ones are to keep the rocks out from getting between the rollers!

Those are probably what they meet to remove,not the others.The newer machines they bolt on. Trying getting them and weld flange on to bolt them on.Good luck
 
Top