Master Switch

[Coaldust]

Talk about thread drift. Lol. Battery switches to sewer pipe. Here is my contribution. Been waiting since April and finally was able to source 4 each, 20’ sticks of 6” API spec 5L-0026 x42 seamless Korea Hyundai. Only $600 each, delivered.

 

[JLarson]

Yeah that's about why I've seen on PVC on average too, all our steel and stainless process pipe has been climbing too. Same with wire and steel stock, getting annoying having to redo bids ever few days. Even just heavy equipment parts are more all the time.

 

[Randy88]

There has been a rash of shed, shop and garage fires around here the last few years, master disconnects will only get you so far. Cordless battery chargers left plugged in have been the cause of quite a few shop fires lately when the fire marshal did the investigation, same goes for extension cords left plugged in the wall when not in use [like most of us do] along with spontaneous combustion of the building itself, leaky roofs soak the rafters and the intense heat under the roof does the rest.

 

[John C.]

I’ve always had large doubts about someone determining a cause of a fire when the evidence is consumed in the fire. I’m not saying that a fire couldn’t be caused by that. I do think that when something isn’t obvious, a investigator won’t say they don’t know. They seem to jump at something that may be plausible.

 

[Randy88]

We just have a couple of severe storms roll through last night, got about 6 inches in two downpours. Long story short, everything is beyond mud, so we're working around the shop and yard today, only issue is, everything I need is sitting on jobsites. So off we got with lowboy in hand to round up those machines I need, pulled into the first job site, and got ready to load.

Walked down to where stuff was parked, turns out one of my machines was running, huh, wondered what was up and what the abnormal noise was, turns out the starter was on fire, and fully engaged, the engine was idling and the battery cables were literally welded to the starter, the solenoid was glowing cherry red, [didn't know that was possible for that Bakelite material], smoke was rolling out the bell housing and the starter itself had a red glow to it.

The battery was literally welded to the cables on that end as well and after some jerking, swearing and hammering, we got one cable off to stop the starter. There was no ignition switch on, no key in it and now we're trying to figure out what happened. I'm thinking water got into something electrical and shorted things out. I don't think it got struck by lightening, I couldn't find any real burn marks on the machine itself, so until it all cools off, we can't take things apart to find out how bad it is. Nothing else was wrong with any of the rest of the machines, so I'll head back this afternoon to tear into it.

The hour meter was hooked to the ignition switch, so when I got there all the idiot lights were on, due to the ignition switch not on, and no more hours registered than when we shut it off a few days ago. No computers and a really simple electrical system, but after looking it over, I think we get to rewire the entire machine this coming week and I haven't even taken it apart yet.

I think its the closest I've ever came to anything starting on fire that actually didn't go up in flames, anyone care to guess how long a starter has to be engaged to literally light it on fire and burn the housing and solenoid and weld the cables to both the starter and battery?

 

[Coaldust]

Lithium ion power tool battery's spook me in regards to fire danger. I’ve had a Milwaukee 20volt get hot and run away on me.

I started using a 50 cal ammo can to store mine in vs leaving them on or near a charging station. Or, on the tool, unless I’m using them.

Thought is, there isn’t enough oxygen in the sealed steel can to allow sustained combustion.

 

[Truck Shop]

It had to have shorted across the start side of ignition switch and or fried the contacts in starter solenoid.

 

[Randy88]

I talked to the property owner when I went back yesterday, he and his wife left at 9:45 and they both claimed nothing was running at that time. We got there at about 10:30 or 45 minutes later and the starter was literally on fire then and still turning over. The wiring harness is a mass of melted wires, but the starter solenoid engage wire and the battery cables and all the rest are in one sheath running from the engine to the dash and go right past the battery on its way.

At this point I don't think there is anyway I can determine what started what, it all needs to be replaced since its a melted mass, but I'd guess a short or a mouse got into the harness and chewed bare wires and then rain [moisture] arced across something and locked on the starter.

I've had issues with a semi in the past, while driving it would lock on the starter and literally tear the starter to pieces before anyone could shut the truck down, for that issue, after 5 new starters in one year, and nobody having any ideas how to stop the problem, the last go around it lit the harness on fire, so we rewired the truck for the third time, then put two start buttons in the starter circuit, one for power, the other for ground, both have to be pushed in order to start the truck and haven't had issues since.

This time on this machine, I think the ignition switch is coming out, a push button start switch is going in, and a master keyed disconnect is also going in, then the harness when replaced, will have the battery cables run in steel conduit and the starter circuit run in a separate conduit so hopefully mice won't be so able to chew on them.

Anyone have any better idea's as to how to prevent an issue like this from happening again?

The owner did say it was raining and lightening when they left, but we didn't find anywhere lightening would have stuck nearby and none of the rest of the machines had issues, and they were literally lined up side by side, something else that won't ever happen again either, otherwise I'd have had the potential to lose 9 machines due to fire at one time. From here on out, all machines will be left with plenty of distance between them. We've always lined them up so fueling and service the next morning was so much nicer, as of yesterday that will never happen again.

 

[Randy88]

Coaldust, we've had cordless tools we were using literally catch on fire, one of my lasers running on battery power did light up and burn when in use, we had to use a fire extinguisher to put it out so it didn't catch the building on fire it sat beside, that one nobody noticed it was on fire till I lost grade on the dozer and after checking all the connections and batteries on the dozer I looked over to see my laser engulfed in flames. My lasers since have never been left with batteries in them overnight, same for cordless tools unless someone screws up and forgets. All batteries are stored so they can't rub together, I haven't gone as so far yet as to do the ammo can's, but actually that's a great idea and thank you for the suggestion.

 

[Coaldust]

Randy88,

That’s a crazy story. Holy cow.

Milwaukee Red to match my packout boxes.