1. Thank you for visiting HeavyEquipmentForums.com! Our objective is to provide industry professionals a place to gather to exchange questions, answers and ideas. We welcome you to register using the "Register" icon at the top of the page. We'd appreciate any help you can offer in spreading the word of our new site. The more members that join, the bigger resource for all to enjoy. Thank you!
  2. ALL NEW MEMBERS READ THIS FIRST!! Thank you for joining Heavy Equipment Forums! If you are new to forums we communicate with "Threads", please search our threads to see if your topic may have already been answered and if not then click "Post New Thread" in the appropriate forum. This will allow all of our members to see your question and give you the best chance to be answered. After you've made a number of posts you will graduate to Full Member status where you'll see a few more privileges. Following these guidelines will help make this the best resource for heavy equipment on the net. Thanks for joining us and I hope you enjoy your stay!!

Looking for info on Cat 3406 SR4B Genset

Discussion in 'Generators/Gensets' started by John C., Oct 17, 2019.

  1. John C.

    John C. Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2007
    Messages:
    7,759
    Occupation:
    Machinery & Equipment Appraiser
    Location:
    Northwest
    I don't know why I keep getting into stuff that I have little experience on but here goes.

    I have a customer that bought a 400 or so KW Cat genset. Like usual he bought it sight unseen and when it got here there were parts missing. I was able to get a parts book the covers this set and about twenty others. Apparently you can spec these things out like a boat engine. Serial number on the engine is 1LS01528 which the Cat parts people tell me is a 3406C. It has the old manual fuel system hanging on the side of the engine and a handle to run the throttle manually. The generator number is 8ER04366. I've given it the once over twice now and the repair / replacement list keeps getting longer the more I look at it. I haven't worked on or seen one of these before so any information would be a big help. I have a couple of photos that might jog a memory or two. Any info on what to look for as far as throttle controls and shut off mechanisms would be appreciated.

    So far I believe someone stole the throttle control from the engine governor and there is no shutdown motor connected to the lever above the throttle shaft. It appears this monster has all the emergency shutdown stuff installed, but no way for it to be hooked up to the fuel system. I've been trying to find a service manual for the unit but so far no luck. I do have the parts book and operation and maintenance manuals, but again they don't really show this unit specifically. The maintenance manual shows the generator with a 3408 and bigger engines. I haven't even started to look at what is wrong with the generator yet. All the covers are only held on with a couple of bolt here and there. The inside of the control panel is coated in heavy oily kind of dust. My last question for now is can the engine be run without the generator producing any power. I'd hate to put a lot of seat and dollars into this thing only to start it and see a lightning bolt turn the engine, generator and myself into a wet piece of charcoal.

    IMG_0893.JPG IMG_0892.JPG
     
  2. Birken Vogt

    Birken Vogt Charter Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2003
    Messages:
    3,059
    Location:
    Grass Valley, Ca
    Yes, you can run it and no lightning will come out if you stay away from the generator end. Just make sure it runs at 1800 RPM or whatever rated speed is and not any other speed, as much as possible.
     
  3. John C.

    John C. Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2007
    Messages:
    7,759
    Occupation:
    Machinery & Equipment Appraiser
    Location:
    Northwest
    There are a whole bunch of wires in there I think for all the phases. Shouldn't there be four wires not connected to anything that need to be kept apart?
     
  4. MarshallPowerGen

    MarshallPowerGen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2017
    Messages:
    163
    Occupation:
    Diesel & Generator Mechanic
    Location:
    Coeur d'Alene, Idaho
    Don't know with that gen end specifically, but many are 12 leads and are re-connectable for what voltage and phase configuration you want. Depending on what you have on the data plate, if the leads are labeled we should be able to tell you that it's hooked up right with some pictures. There may be a diagram inside one of the panels.

    Be careful if it turns out someone's been digging around in there.
     
  5. Tyler d4c

    Tyler d4c Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2016
    Messages:
    274
    Location:
    Salix Pa
    Dont quote me on this but the genty leads should be nema standard 9 lead or 12 lead just like a motor. A electrical hand should tell the rest. And what is really important is to hook the volt regulator up to the correct voltage. Or smoke will fly ask how I know. At least this is the case with some ac delco units I've messed with.
     
  6. John C.

    John C. Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2007
    Messages:
    7,759
    Occupation:
    Machinery & Equipment Appraiser
    Location:
    Northwest
    I read somewhere that this is a four pole generator and I can find diagrams on line that show the many ways it can be hooked up. I'm thinking a generator specialist will be necessary before I turn the engine over.
    All the larger gensets that I've had to work on had a mechanical or electric throttle control. This one only has the handle in the photo. The parts book shows a threaded rod with a spring hooked to a bracket and to the bottom of that handle in the photo. Does anyone know how load control and slope and all that can be controlled with just a manual throttle?
     
  7. excavator

    excavator Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2006
    Messages:
    952
    Location:
    Pacific North West
    I used to have several Cat generator manuals but a quick run through my manual room didn't turn anything up other than one that is dated June 1978 so that's going to be to early for a 3406C, it's a drawings manual. If I have some time later I will take a closer look but I think I probably got rid of the others so that I wouldn't be temped to use them.
     
    John C. likes this.
  8. Birken Vogt

    Birken Vogt Charter Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2003
    Messages:
    3,059
    Location:
    Grass Valley, Ca
    Are the main leads of the generator all disconnected? Take a picture if they are and we can help get it in a safe running condition. Should only take a couple rolls of electrical tape. Then you can test the engine at least. If you want to test the generator then we can help you wire it up. It's not rocket science but there is potential for smoke if done wrong, but it is done all the time. You don't need years of school or anything.
     
  9. John C.

    John C. Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2007
    Messages:
    7,759
    Occupation:
    Machinery & Equipment Appraiser
    Location:
    Northwest
    Here are a couple of photos. One shows the mess of wires dropped into cavity behind the control panel and the other is of a decal that shows EMCPII. I'm guessing this thing has some kind of mystery box that controls everything.
     
  10. John C.

    John C. Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2007
    Messages:
    7,759
    Occupation:
    Machinery & Equipment Appraiser
    Location:
    Northwest
    Oops, hit the wrong button and didn't get the photos uploaded.
    IMG_0895.JPG IMG_0902.JPG
     
  11. MarshallPowerGen

    MarshallPowerGen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2017
    Messages:
    163
    Occupation:
    Diesel & Generator Mechanic
    Location:
    Coeur d'Alene, Idaho
    That looks totally standard inside there. Doesn't look to be messed with, but if you can get the lead numbers/ID from each of those cable tags and tell us which are connected to which at the four taped ends, can confirm that it's still set up for 480vac.
     
  12. Birken Vogt

    Birken Vogt Charter Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2003
    Messages:
    3,059
    Location:
    Grass Valley, Ca
    That mess of heavy current wires taped off is how they made these things up, just the way it is done. Unless bare metal is showing it is normal. I can't quite tell from the picture but the connections in the lower right of the box should be the load connections, connected to the breaker or load terminals or whatever. What are they doing in that corner, are they laying there unconnected?
     
  13. John C.

    John C. Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2007
    Messages:
    7,759
    Occupation:
    Machinery & Equipment Appraiser
    Location:
    Northwest
    I believe this unit might have been in the oil fields. I also believe that in might have been in a building or a trailer as there is a hole in the top of the panel with some rubber where it looks like the wires came out of and probably went into a switch gear panel. What also make me believe that, is the exhaust system out of the turbo only has the adapter to something that is missing. I believe it was an elbow connection that went to a muffler mounted in the building or trailer. In my mind there should be four lead wires that would have connected to something which are probably taped off or bare and laying in that mess. I'll do some more digging next time I'm up there. The engine is my main concern for now. The fuel strainer was full of the black gelatin that indicates lots of biocide in the fuel tank is going to be necessary after I pump out the fuel.
     
  14. Truck Shop

    Truck Shop Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2015
    Messages:
    4,087
    Occupation:
    fry cook
    Location:
    SE Washington St
    The fuel shut off solenoid is missing from the back of that injector pump. I would assume it had one.
     
  15. John C.

    John C. Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2007
    Messages:
    7,759
    Occupation:
    Machinery & Equipment Appraiser
    Location:
    Northwest
    I've been trying to figure out what goes in that hole. The parts book doesn't show a shutoff solenoid there but does show an old style hour meter. It does show a shutdown motor hooking up to a lever above the throttle lever. There is a lever there but it only moves a little and just stops. There is a three wire harness connector in that area just hanging.
     
  16. Mobiltech

    Mobiltech Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2014
    Messages:
    1,150
    Occupation:
    Self employed Heavy duty mechanic
    Location:
    Sask.
    That hole in the governor is for a tach drive. The shutoff is above it where that hose comes out and heads back towards gen. Where does the hose go .
    The throttle control is just the lever. It should lock in at 1800 rpm or low idle. You can start it at low idle if you want.
    All governing is done inside the mechanical governor so I don’t see any problem or pieces missing there at all.
     
    John C. and Truck Shop like this.
  17. Truck Shop

    Truck Shop Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2015
    Messages:
    4,087
    Occupation:
    fry cook
    Location:
    SE Washington St
    Here's a B model on highway, different in fuel shut off, like said above.

    002 (19).JPG
     
  18. John C.

    John C. Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2007
    Messages:
    7,759
    Occupation:
    Machinery & Equipment Appraiser
    Location:
    Northwest
    Thank you gentlemen! That answers most of the questions I had about the engine. The black knob is apparently part of the engine protection system. The hose goes up to some kind of valve by the thermostat housing on the front of the engine and then down to the oil gallery. I'm thinking that the engine won't start and run unless it has a minimum amount of oil pressure.
    What I'm wrestling with now is since the drain port on the pump has been open, for who knows how long, should the pump be removed and sent in, opened up to make sure moisture hasn't frozen things in place.
     
  19. Truck Shop

    Truck Shop Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2015
    Messages:
    4,087
    Occupation:
    fry cook
    Location:
    SE Washington St
    That's a Murphy's law situation, damned if you do and damned if you don't. If it was me I would have it checked out, better to error on the side of caution. And there's the 80% possibility that
    there is nothing wrong with it too. Except that Ralph the spider that's been living in there will have to find a new home.
     
  20. MarshallPowerGen

    MarshallPowerGen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2017
    Messages:
    163
    Occupation:
    Diesel & Generator Mechanic
    Location:
    Coeur d'Alene, Idaho
    Looking at your original picture, I think that "Y"/chicken foot looking piece with the two slots needs to be rotated over to the top so that handle has those two slots to lock into (1800 and low idle) and a linkage/threaded rod installed from one of the two holes to the bracket sticking out towards the rear of the engine for the fine adjustment to hold it at 1800.

    Hope this makes sense (just got home from an 8 hour drive across a couple states), if not I can get on the laptop and try to illustrate it...