Large backhoe $50k or less with the fewest emissions problems. What years should I be looking at?

[Spud_Monkey]

What years in general are pre-electronic control?
A big (to me) 30 or 40 ton excavator would be sweet. I just spent last night envisioning how I would get it onto the property. Literally be a black op's night project as I'd have to travel a ways down a 20' wide county road in the woods and then cross an irrigation ditch with a ton of elevation change right off the road. Then dismantle a couple fences (they are simple-ish things though).

Sound like me getting this 25 ton crawler loader home, a few bridge weight limit signs disappeared on the route, 50 miles of rock road and last three miles had to unload it to drive it up the ridge which I managed to push couple trees over too.

 

[AzIron]

450 suck the e series really sucked

446b solid and slow have owned 4 own one currently never let's me down simple to work on all mechanical

450 or 446 is a lot bigger than a 410 or 590

446 sells kinda cheap comparably to any thing else

Used backhoes have gone up about 35 to g
40 percent according to ritchies in the last year I would wait about 6 to 9 months they might be on a fire sale

 

[Willie B]

If you will not move it after it is delivered, you want a BIG tractor. Only excuse for a little tractor is you can't move it with a small truck or trailer.
I've had a John Deere 410, Case 580K, Case 580K in cream puff condition, JD 410C, & now 2014 Case 580 Super N. The newest is nicest, & if I were totally deaf, I'd love it. It's old enough to be pre DEF, but not old enough to be pre computer. It screams at me for everything! It alarms because the fuel sensor inside the tank isn't always right, move suddenly it loses signal. The seat must be latched, but not always. A water at fuel filter sensor alarms constantly, sensor is bad. These parts have been on back order since September.
I had a recurring service alarm, I bought an on line operator's manual to learn how to reset that. It has had two engine oil & filter changes since September, but the computer needs to be told.
Parking brake alarm is constant. It alarms if the brake isn't set, it alarms when the brake is set. Sometimes it alarms seemingly without reason.
Also, when I bought it it was a problem getting into first gear. Dear God! the alarms from that! It lived at the dealer more than two weeks, they used it as a wheelbarrow, assured me that was resolved. Now it shifts, but occasionally alarms anyway.

Each machine will have its qualities, and weak points. I rate condition as most critical. Older John Deere are smoothest with back hoe operation, but I've not had a good experience with parts availability. I owned my first JD when the internet wasn't much, & people who understand early JD hydraulics are few.
Case is a great machine, but hoe hydraulics are very jerky.
Never owned a Cat, but they are HEAVY to be hauled behind smaller trucks.

 

[Willie B]

Dumb question. I am really only looking at CAT, CASE, and JD. Are these all SAE (old JD) controls? I always called them JD controls. I only recently in the last few years read about ISO and SAE.

And if they aren't SAE they are all easily switchable?

I think Cat come with ISO controls. Newer pilot control machines have pattern switch. Older hydraulic control machines have (in some cases) pattern conversion valves.

 

[Willie B]

I think Cat come with ISO controls. Newer pilot control machines have pattern switch. Older hydraulic control machines have (in some cases) pattern conversion valves.

Many of the older Case backhoes are three lever/foot swing. Extend a hoe models got an extra lever. I might learn to use multi lever, foot swing is NOT going to fly with me! You'll smash buildings & trucks, maybe a person now & again.

 

[hseII]

Many of the older Case backhoes are three lever/foot swing. Extend a hoe models got an extra lever. I might learn to use multi lever, foot swing is NOT going to fly with me! You'll smash buildings & trucks, maybe a person now & again.

I thought all backhoes had foot swing & nonexistent brakes till I left home for college.

grandad had a pair of 580Cs that he eventually traded out of & then a 580 Super L.

A good operator will get the swing with his feet down pat with practice.

3-4 stick? Those C model extenda hoes had about 8.

Granddad’s fingers were big as pool cues on the big end from running them too.

 

[Willie B]

I am not a fan. My brain says swing, when I'm done swinging lift foot. Case says counter with my other foot. The two hydraulic Case hoes had a weird quirk, finish other functions, the swing speeds up. Combine that with a tricky swing control, somebody is going to get hurt.

 

[Tinkerer]

I ran a Case 590 for a contractor I was working for.
The foot pedal swing was stupid fast and impossible to stop softly. Very dangerous for any laborers to get near.
Engine rpms were not the problem.
My old 680CK is the opposite. Very easy to control and stops swinging very softly.

 

[NH575E]

Before buying my backhoe I rented a Bobcat mini ex with pilot controls. It had a switch to change pattern.

I found it to be very linear, comfortable, and easy to control. Would love to have it on my hoe.

My left lever controls swing and lift and is much more sensitive than the curl and crowd lever. I can't imagine trying to control swing by a foot pedal.

 

[Willie B]

I ran a Case 590 for a contractor I was working for.
The foot pedal swing was stupid fast and impossible to stop softly. Very dangerous for any laborers to get near.
Engine rpms were not the problem.
My old 680CK is the opposite. Very easy to control and stops swinging very softly.

Some have a swing sequence valve that reduces flow at end of swing. When it works well, linkage senses when you are near the stop & reduces flow to nearly nothing. When they were in production some models you could add flow restrictors in the swing hoses to slow swing. They are NLA.

 

[Compression-Ignition]

Well I may just concede and rent a good size excavator. I really really don't want to throw money away renting, but I think that's where we are going to be at. But I'll be keeping my eyes peeled for a deal. If anyone runs across something that looks like it would be a good machine for me, feel free to drop a link in here.

Thanks for the help here fella's.

 

[Tinkerer]

You didn't say how many 2 foot diameter trees you need to get on the ground.
Renting an excavator is a good decision if you have very many of them. IMHO.
You didn't say what you are still looking for in your last post. Excavator or T/L/B ?
Take your time looking, and the right machine will eventually show up.
For what its worth, I installed a decent hydraulic thumb on my t/l/b for less than $800.00.
But, you can spend 2 or 3 thousand on one. Depends on the style and brand name.

 

[Compression-Ignition]

You didn't say how many 2 foot diameter trees you need to get on the ground.
Renting an excavator is a good decision if you have very many of them. IMHO.
You didn't say what you are still looking for in your last post. Excavator or T/L/B ?
Take your time looking, and the right machine will eventually show up.
For what its worth, I installed a decent hydraulic thumb on my t/l/b for less than $800.00.
But, you can spend 2 or 3 thousand on one. Depends on the style and brand name.

I would prefer to find a good size 4wd backhoe.
Extend a hoe
A thumb
4 in 1 front bucket
And enclosed cab

I think I should be able to get everything but the thumb on the initial purchase, given enough time to find the right deal. I did a shipping estimate for a 19,000lb machine and it was about 5 grand from Michigan to Western Montana. So I may have to budget in at least that much. I just might not have access to enough cash to get everything I want done in the time frame I've got. So renting looks like the ticket for now. I'm going to make a bunch of calls to rental places and see what kinda money I'm looking at. I've tentatively budgeted 20k for 3 - 4 months.

I honestly don't know how many 2' diameter trees, 15 - 35 maybe. Depends on where we put everything. Our offer was just accepted recently and it'll still be a little while before I can get out there to flag and paint the crap out of it.

 

[aighead]

I haven't used either but if you find a 4 in 1 the thumb may be less needed, as it kind of acts as a thumb. Good luck on your search, I think the excavator rental is a good idea.

 

[NH575E]

I can say that adding a thumb was THE best addition to my backhoe. Mine is a weld on mechanical that is left positioned in the 90 degree setting. I use it every time I dig.

In my opinion you are still going to want a tractor for mowing, grading, and moving stuff around. Adding a grapple to a tractor loader is not that much trouble. Having to change machines to do different tasks becomes second nature.

Of course if you find a backhoe with a quick release 4 in 1 would be all that much better but never going to replace the need for a tractor.

 

[Tinkerer]

25 trees that size --- I would cut them off close to the ground with a chainsaw and have someone grind the stumps.
It sure wouldn't take long with a decent size saw.
The money saved could be applied to the T/L/B purchase.
In the image is a white oak I cut up 2 weeks ago.

 

[Compression-Ignition]

25 trees that size --- I would cut them off close to the ground with a chainsaw and have someone grind the stumps.
It sure wouldn't take long with a decent size saw.
The money saved could be applied to the T/L/B purchase.
In the image is a white oak I cut up 2 weeks ago.
View attachment 253804

I have to build a long driveway and an area for a homesite and shop. I can't be leaving all of that mess under the ground. All the stumps and the majority of the roots will get pulled and thrown in a corner of the property to be burned and some buried on and near a steep slope that I can't do anything with anyway. Shooting berm is what I was thinking.

Also I do not have anywhere near an accurate count on the larger trees. I've been out near the property a bunch, and I have peered in from the edges quite a bit. But I've only walked it twice. Both times with my small children, one of the times the snow was 2 foot deep. Not really conducive to coming up with a hard final game plan while you are carrying a 10 month old in a pack on your back and a 3 year old on your neck. Not that big a piece of land (650'x1250'), but still a lot to look at.

 

[terex herder]

When you say big, are you thinking 410 deere size, or 710? For simplicity, its hard to beat direct controls.

 

[Willie B]

I have a Case 580 Super N. It's an earlier model, before Case offered a thumb as an option. I've been hoping to find this model thumb equipped, just to measure & photograph. I've built a couple thumbs before, I'll build another. They are nearly as scarce as chicken teeth.
Used backhoes equipped with a thumb are rare. You might as well accept that you have to add your own thumb.
Mine came to me with hydraulics for a hammer, or tamper, not two way hydraulics. It seems it is very involved to convert.

As for trees, you'll find it easy to push with the hoe as high as you can reach. A tree trunk makes a Hell of a lever! If the tree is too big, you'll have to tear out some of the roots first. DO NOT use this method on dead trees, or trees with other dead trees nearby. Those trees, I pull down with a very long cable, or winch.

 

[Compression-Ignition]

When you say big, are you thinking 410 deere size, or 710? For simplicity, its hard to beat direct controls.

I'll look at anything really, but I guess I just want some weight and grunt behind it. Also the larger backhoes usually have bigger front tires, which will lend to getting more traction.

A well maintained hoe, with an open cab, without too much emissions stuff (no matter the year), deep tread on the tires, a 4 in 1 front bucket, and an extendahoe.

Will definitely trump (for me anyway)

A newer hoe, with an enclosed cab, all the dpf garbage (I fully admit faults in this/these systems worry me), all the bells and whistles (radio, heat, etc.), a standard front bucket, and a non-extendable hoe.

I could make some changes to my preferences if the deal had a grading bucket for the hoe or maybe a compactor or hammer.