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Just bought a Lull 644! How much does it weigh?

joestewart

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Joined
Oct 14, 2009
Messages
204
Location
Lafayette, LA
I put in a bid and won a fixer upper model 644 Lull Telehandler. Cut and paste the ebay link or check out item #170442453396. Feel free to critique the purchase.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170442453396&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

I have not personally inspected the machine yet, but it is sitting on one flat tire. The tilt hydraulic cylinder has a pitted piston which needs to be replaced. Some hydraulic lines are disconnected. Will have to see when I get there next weekend. Its about a 1-1/2 hour drive from my home. The question has arisen: How much does this machine weigh? The seller tells me 27,000 lbs - hard to believe or is this accurate? If anyone knows, please chime in. Does anyone have the parts/service manuals for this particular model on pdf format? Would love to get any info on this machine that I can. The seller does not know if its a 37 foot lift or 42 foot lift. Thanks! J. Stewart
 

joestewart

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Joined
Oct 14, 2009
Messages
204
Location
Lafayette, LA
I also wanted to know its approximate dimensions (like length and width to see if it will fit on our trailer). The seller tells me that this model has the John Deere 4239 diesel engine. Thanks
 

barklee

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Aug 4, 2009
Messages
903
Location
ohio
Looks to me to be a Highlander I model. Mid to late 80's machine. Could be a 26' or a 34' machine. The Highlanders did not come in a 42' height (i think). The weight will be 20,000 to 21,000 lbs. Looked on JLG website and they dont list the Highlanders for parts and service manuals. You may try to call their service dept and they can email you a pdf for everything you need. Best of luck on this machine, they were pretty tough lifts, hopefully there still some life left in her!
 

wilddanz71

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Sep 28, 2008
Messages
165
Location
MA
Man you stole that thing!! I dont have a 644 but I have a 844 Highlander that is about the same age and condition. I beleive 99% positive that my 844 weighs 22K lbs so that has to weigh a little less. As far as size I can tell you personaly I have put mine on a 10ton tag trailer. The tires hung over about 4-6" on each side. a little scarry loading, but it was a short trip. good luck I love my 844
 

Speedpup

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President and all else that needs done!
Good deal I was watching that machine. It is 34' machine and weights about 22,000 844 is 23,500. 644 is 8' wide. Length is same as 844 for trailer purposes. You can get a manual on ebay or JLG but it won't be in PDF. it will be old book style. Web Equipment may have a used rod for you to replace the pitted one. If they don't you can still get new if not in stock it takes about 4 weeks plus.
Serial number should be on the right side of cab below metal screen near load chart. If I had few pictures of the cab interior I could get closer on the year. You can do a historical search on the machine if the serial number is missing. They can trace it by tags on the axles and give you the history which is good for parts purchasing.

Tires look decent the rims may be rotted with calcium they are near the age of failure. Sometimes when you take them apart the o-ring will not reseal on the rim. You can put a tube in if not severely rotted or get new rim for about 300-350. New rim lets you just plug a tire in the field.

It may leak at the wet drive line brakes at the seal and the yoke. The yoke it 1200$$$$ You can sleeve the yoke cheap with stainless and it will last forever then better than new. It could also have just the dry drive-line brakes which ended in early 80's. They worked good and easy to service.

Check the planateries and swap out all the fluids and filters in the machine.

Post some pictures when you get it. great machines with a tad of care, I have 3 844 1985, 1985 and 1986 and a 1990 1044B all since new or with 50-400 hours.

It is easier to back it up a tag trailer than drive on front ways.

JD good engines. Keep the rollers greased but don't let the roller surface get grease on it they may then slide and flatten. Check tension on the cable in the boom cable.

You bought it good and can still put some bucks into it and get it back if you sold it.
 
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joestewart

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Oct 14, 2009
Messages
204
Location
Lafayette, LA
Thank you. This is GREAT information. Seller told me that all of the rest of the hydraulic cylinders are fine. He told me that they disconnected the hydraulic lines to that tilt cylinder because it was leaking fluid - so they disconnected them and capped them - not sure how they capped them, but let me ask a dumb question. If I start the machine, won't hydraulic pressure blow those caps off and shoot fluid all over the place? I should probably re-connect these lines before I attempt to start it up. Seller says a couple of other lines need to be replaced - Not sure how this will all pan out - I'll have to see when I get there - We just want to get it on the trailer so we can get it home - we will attempt to do this on saturday - will post photos of the machine.

Concerning the pitted piston: Could this piston be purchased at a local hydraulic shop, or is this possibly a "dealer only" item? Hoping to save a few bucks here.

The seller says the serial number is JD2649N. I spotted another 644 on another website with a serial number with an identical format ("JCXXXXN"), but that machine had an "XXXX" that was about 200 greater than this machine. It was a 1990 model, so I guess by extrapolation, this suggests that our 644 is about a 1989 or 1990 model.
 

Speedpup

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Thank you. This is GREAT information. Seller told me that all of the rest of the hydraulic cylinders are fine. He told me that they disconnected the hydraulic lines to that tilt cylinder because it was leaking fluid - so they disconnected them and capped them - not sure how they capped them, but let me ask a dumb question. If I start the machine, won't hydraulic pressure blow those caps off and shoot fluid all over the place? I should probably re-connect these lines before I attempt to start it up. Seller says a couple of other lines need to be replaced - Not sure how this will all pan out - I'll have to see when I get there - We just want to get it on the trailer so we can get it home - we will attempt to do this on saturday - will post photos of the machine.

Concerning the pitted piston: Could this piston be purchased at a local hydraulic shop, or is this possibly a "dealer only" item? Hoping to save a few bucks here.

The seller says the serial number is JD2649N. I spotted another 644 on another website with a serial number with an identical format ("JCXXXXN"), but that machine had an "XXXX" that was about 200 greater than this machine. It was a 1990 model, so I guess by extrapolation, this suggests that our 644 is about a 1989 or 1990 model.

the oil won't come out when started unless you hit the lever for the tilt. May be better to connect it to get carriage And forks back for easier trailering. Web Equipment probably has a used one. For kicks the lift rod on my 844 is 1800+ :eek: I will just replace the seal after 20+ years :D of having the nick since I got it in 86. one site I saw said it is 18,xxx lbs but I think they are wrong. You may be able to get the rod refinshed or try to clean it smooth it out and throw some seals in it for a while. Seal is cheaper 50-60 bucks and if the rod is smoothed out it will last a while.

Go early on Sat in case you have a problem with the tire and need a shop to throw a tube in it. Ask around where the machine is so you have one or two guys to turn to on the tire and if they work on Sat. Seller may know of a source or you could have them get the tire up before you go there.

Gauge gasket is still there so save it and you can get some lexan on ebay 8x12" for cheap and cover the gauges like they were when new so the don't get hammered out by some POS.

When you do trailer it be aware the boom may come out by itself while trailering so chain carriage/ fork bar to the frame or something they have no holding valve on that cylinder on my 844 or 1044. Don't ask me how I know this:Banghead:Banghead:eek:


May want to locate a hydraulic hose place down near the machine also and ask if they are there Sat.
 
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joestewart

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Oct 14, 2009
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204
Location
Lafayette, LA
I couldn't wait until the weekend. I took advantage of the Mardi Gras holiday today and I drove down to Houma and here's a few pictures of what I saw.

I took the flat tire off and brought it home for repair. It had no tube and no ballast. I brought to a local tire repair man and he will put a tube in it. I had to take a wire wheel to the inside of the rim and put a coat of primer on it. Machine looks good overall.

The "pitted" cylinder turns out not to be pitted. It looks like it could be polished with steel wool. That cylinder will likely need to have the packing replaced.

I did not try to start the engine. The seller tells me he started it two months ago and it ran good.

We are planning to bring a trailer down there this saturday and bring it home.
 

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joestewart

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Lafayette, LA
Here's a few more.
 

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joestewart

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204
Location
Lafayette, LA
And a couple more.
 

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Speedpup

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check the oil and coolant before you start it. Get some brass wool it is softer.
 

joestewart

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Joined
Oct 14, 2009
Messages
204
Location
Lafayette, LA
We took our three axle equipment trailer to Houma today, but we FAILED to bring the machine home. It was too heavy for our trailer. We drove it up onto the trailer and ALL of the trailer's tires were scraping the under surface of the deck. We unloaded it and headed home empty. I will hire a lowboy to go get it at some point in the future.

BUT, all was not lost! We got to familiarize ourself with this machine. It turns out that it is somewhat of a basket case.

1. The freeze plug on the rear of the cylinder head has popped out. We found it and stuck it back on hand tight. This will have to be replaced with a new one.

2. ALL of the hydraulic cylinders leak hydraulic fluid. All of them need new packings/seals.

3. The hydraulic cylinder that levels the machine from side to side (the prominent one in the photo below) is NON-FUNCTIONAL, although we can see the inlet and outlet hoses jerk when we actuate the lever that services that particular cylinder. This left the machine leaning toward one side. We had to use another forklift to help it get to the level position you see in the photo. The seller believes that rebuilding that cylinder will rectify the problem.

4. The hydraulic fluid is contaminated with water and is slightly milky. The hydraulic filter that drops into the top of the hydraulic fluid reservoir appears to be clogged (the needle on the gauge attached to the filter housing pegs when you rev the engine - the gauge is faded and hard to read, but I believe that this means its clogged. We removed the filter and fluid does not appear to flow freely through it.

5. The tranny had no fluid or very little fluid in it. We tried to drive it up the trailer ramp a couple of times and it wouldn't go - kept pausing half way up - checked the tranny fluid and discovered it did not register on dipstick. Noticed that dipstick says to use "C-3 fluid only" - Not sure what C-3 fluid is. I went to NAPA and the guy behind the counter did not know either. I bought some dexron/mercon and poured it in and the machine went up the ramp fine. If this is the wrong fluid, let me know and I'll drain it out once we get it home.

6. Brakes very weak and one brake line is disconnected out near the tire - not sure why - I guess it was leaking - not looking forward to doing a brake job on this machine.

7. One of the larger hydraulic cylinders (the one that you can see when you are standing at the rear of the machine and you look up toward the sky to visualize the tail end of the boom) has a couple - maybe ten ' rust particles adhered to the shiny portion of the piston - these are probable pits in the chrome. These will have to be smoothed out.

8. There is no ignition key. We had to unscrew the key assembly and "hot wire" it. The seller tells me he will try to locate the key.

Other than that, I guess I'm satisfied with the purchase. Here's my questions:
1. Where is the best place to purchase hydraulic cylinder rebuild kits for these?
2. What is the proper fluid to put in the transmission?
3. Anyone have an operators manual that they can fax me a few pages out of? 337-289-7680 We had some trouble teaching ourselves how to operate
4. Has anyone serviced the brakes on these machines? Any info appreciated.

J. Stewart
 

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Speedpup

Senior Member
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1,214
Location
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President and all else that needs done!
We took our three axle equipment trailer to Houma today, but we FAILED to bring the machine home. It was too heavy for our trailer. We drove it up onto the trailer and ALL of the trailer's tires were scraping the under surface of the deck. We unloaded it and headed home empty. I will hire a lowboy to go get it at some point in the future.

BUT, all was not lost! We got to familiarize ourself with this machine. It turns out that it is somewhat of a basket case.

1. The freeze plug on the rear of the cylinder head has popped out. We found it and stuck it back on hand tight. This will have to be replaced with a new one.

2. ALL of the hydraulic cylinders leak hydraulic fluid. All of them need new packings/seals.

That will be a lot of work:eek:

3. The hydraulic cylinder that levels the machine from side to side (the prominent one in the photo below) is NON-FUNCTIONAL, although we can see the inlet and outlet hoses jerk when we actuate the lever that services that particular cylinder. This left the machine leaning toward one side. We had to use another forklift to help it get to the level position you see in the photo. The seller believes that rebuilding that cylinder will rectify the problem.

That could be the check valve on the side of the cylinder. If it does not move at al the cylinder would have to be totally shot snd by passing the piston.

4. The hydraulic fluid is contaminated with water and is slightly milky. The hydraulic filter that drops into the top of the hydraulic fluid reservoir appears to be clogged (the needle on the gauge attached to the filter housing pegs when you rev the engine - the gauge is faded and hard to read, but I believe that this means its clogged. We removed the filter and fluid does not appear to flow freely through it.

The filter has a by-pass when the filter is clogged. If it didn't the hydraulic pump would starve and be shot!

5. The tranny had no fluid or very little fluid in it. We tried to drive it up the trailer ramp a couple of times and it wouldn't go - kept pausing half way up - checked the tranny fluid and discovered it did not register on dipstick. Noticed that dipstick says to use "C-3 fluid only" - Not sure what C-3 fluid is. I went to NAPA and the guy behind the counter did not know either. I bought some dexron/mercon and poured it in and the machine went up the ramp fine. If this is the wrong fluid, let me know and I'll drain it out once we get it home.

That fluid is fine or it is what I use in my Lulls.

6. Brakes very weak and one brake line is disconnected out near the tire - not sure why - I guess it was leaking - not looking forward to doing a brake job on this machine.

That will be a bit of work

7. One of the larger hydraulic cylinders (the one that you can see when you are standing at the rear of the machine and you look up toward the sky to visualize the tail end of the boom) has a couple - maybe ten ' rust particles adhered to the shiny portion of the piston - these are probable pits in the chrome. These will have to be smoothed out.

8. There is no ignition key. We had to unscrew the key assembly and "hot wire" it. The seller tells me he will try to locate the key.

Other than that, I guess I'm satisfied with the purchase. Here's my questions:
1. Where is the best place to purchase hydraulic cylinder rebuild kits for these?

I get mine from webequipment.com ask for Stacy

2. What is the proper fluid to put in the transmission?
3. Anyone have an operators manual that they can fax me a few pages out of? 337-289-7680 We had some trouble teaching ourselves how to operate
4. Has anyone serviced the brakes on these machines? Any info appreciated.

Are the brakes on the drive line? I would asume so for the age of the machine? Then you have the ebrake to check also.


J. Stewart

u have a bunch of work ahead of you. If you are doing all the deals with the condition of everything I think you need to do them all at once and try to flush every cylinder and the entire hydraulic system.
 

Speedpup

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Lube schedule may be inside the tool box door.


seal not deal above

Tilt cylinder in the rear of the boom is a slave cylinder that keeps the forks in the same position or level if you start that way.

The gauge on the filter even when real cold won't peg it so you are right it is probably clogged. Should be an Arlon filter set up. If you do the brakes and they are drivline I would sleeve the yokes while it is apart.

Weak brakes could also be the master cylinder just under the pedal and floor.

You can put some wood blocking between the front frame and the axle cradle to keep it from tilting again.

Check the boom extension cylinder also for leaks in the boom. Clean the hydraulic tank also and if you are doing that do the fuel side as it is all one piece.

I have no clue how people pound a machine into a state like that.:beatsme
 
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