John Deere 410D Backhoe Loader will not drive: forward or reverse

[NH575E]

After working with the machine a bit. The solenoid coil for the clutch disconnect seemed to work but it appears it will no longer go into neutral. It appears to want to stay in forward when the FNR lever is either in Forward or neutral. If i put it in reverse, it will go in reverse.

Would this be an issue with the actual solenoid valve? (not just the solenoid coil)

Is this a known bad FNR lever issue?

Also, after parking it for a bit and fixing a fuel line issue, the machine seems to be stuck in park. Red light for the parking break is stuck on buzzing at me. I guess it thinks I am in forward. It also does not appear to want to release the parking break. This might be a safety feature to keep it from releasing.

Sounds like a problem with the FNR switch. Try unplugging it.

 

[Katherine A DeHaven]

Thank you for these suggestions. I'm going to tinker this weekend on it and post what i find out.

 

[Katherine A DeHaven]

So, when I bought the machine and had my first issue I had found a 30amp fuse in the FNR/Brake fuse slot which should only be 10amp. It looked a little burned up but the fuse was still working.

(i replaced this with a new 10amp fuse)

Eventually this led me to tracing some wires and found the solenoid coil wires a little burned and loose from the coil. So i put a new coil on.

Tinkering with this now, I see that this FNR/brake fuse is consistently blowing in test mode with the ignition key. It appears to blow when i am operating the FNR lever. The parking break switch does not appear to cause fuse failure.

I'm curious where to test from here. Is this fuse blowing because of too much juice from the battery? or can fuses blow from another reason.

 

[mekanik]

Its not too much juice from the battery. There is too much load on the fuse.
The fuse fails when you operate the FNR lever, does it fail when you put in forward or reverse?
The fuse can fail because of a failed solenoid or a wire that has worn through the insulation and
is grounding somewhere or even a failed backup alarm.

 

[NH575E]

Looks like the FNR switch is switching power. Power comes in from F9 to the switch. In Neutral it directs power to the neutral start switch. Forward to the forward solenoid and reverse to the reverse solenoid.

The problem could be in the switch or any of the connected components or wiring

Does it blow the fuse with any movement of the FNR switch or in one particular position?

It obviously has too little resistance or a ground feeding back to the fuse. Unplug one component at a time and see if it isolates the problem.

Earlier you said it was not going into neutral. Only forward in F or N and reverse in R. This to me sounds like a switch problem. I assume it has a plug? Unplug the switch and check each contact to ground with an ohm meter. NOT the contacts in the plug, the contacts for the switch. Feeding power to an ohm meter will damage the meter. Looking at the schematic none of the switch contacts should have continuity to ground with the switch unplugged.

 

[Katherine A DeHaven]

So further testing with the fuse revealed that the fuse is blowing when I put the FNR switch into Forward. Reverse does not blow the fuse nor putting it back into neutral. Reverse even sounds the backup alarm when tested.

I had ordered a second solenoid coil and had replaced this forward solenoid coil as well, so it has a new coil on the forward solenoid.

So there must be a wiring issue. As you said NH575E and Finca it might be grounding someplace? I have a multimeter and was able to test that the forward wiring was getting 11.5-12v at the plug in for the solenoid. I guess it held up long enough to test.

I'll try and check amperage maybe at the solenoid.

 

[Katherine A DeHaven]

I will try the Ohm testing as well. thankyou

 

[NH575E]

Unplug the forward coil and see if the fuse still blows. If it does the problem is in the wiring. If it doesn't the coil has too little resistance. Are the forward and reverse coils the same? If so you can swap them and see if the problem moves with the coil. If the coils are in close enough proximity you can just swap the connections to test.

 

[Katherine A DeHaven]

Unplug the forward coil and see if the fuse still blows. If it does the problem is in the wiring. If it doesn't the coil has too little resistance. Are the forward and reverse coils the same? If so you can swap them and see if the problem moves with the coil. If the coils are in close enough proximity you can just swap the connections to test.

I repaired some frayed wiring and switched the forward solenoid coil with a different one. The copper still seemed intact so i wrapped it well in electrical tape. This appears to have stopped the fuse blowing.

Ohm test on the FNR plug had no issues.

Now, the machine moves again forward but the FNR lever in neutral still keeps it in forward. As one member said, the solenoid valve might just be getting stuck in open position.

The clutch disconnect switch on the gear shift and loader arm work to put in neutral if i hold them down.

Also, now it wont go in reverse when before it went into reverse just fine. Haha kinda comical.

 

[Tinkerer]

Did you repair both of the wires ??
Does this one exit the wire loom there or is it broken off ?

 

[Katherine A DeHaven]

Did you repair both of the wires ??
Does this one exit the wire loom there or is it broken off ?
View attachment 267404

I cut open that harness a little bit, so i could access those wires more. I was very delicate to open that harness.

I repaired the two copper exposed areas the best i could with electrical tape, the copper itself did not appear to be bad/broken. i peeled away some of the old green wire insulation to check.

 

[NH575E]

What type connectors are in the FNR plug? I would find a way to isolate those for testing and make sure the power in connection only connects with one of the three output connections in the related switch position. You could do this with an ohm meter unplugged or a volt meter or test light probing the back of the harness with it plugged in.

 

[mekanik]

If you unplug the FNR does it still try to move forward?

 

[Katherine A DeHaven]

Ok, so i tried the FNR unplugging and this had no effect. I put the machine in forward and then back into neutral, then unplugged the FNR lever from the machine. It remained in forward while in neutral.

My next test was what Finca sdr suggested and to "tap" the top of the solenoid valve for the forward. I restarted the machine and it was back in neutral (i think). I revved the gas just to be sure that it wouldn't move.

I then put the machine in Reverse before attempting forward and...what do you know, it goes in reverse. So i put the machine in forward and it moves forward, BUT will not return to neutral or reverse.

My current thought is that it is a faulty forward solenoid valve stem (stuck open). I went out and bought a special socket to remove them stem but it is not budging, and i really don't want to strip this. I've already soaked it in PB blaster. I've attached some pictures of the stem in question. It takes a deep socket 1 1/8". I might hire out for this. I bought a amazon replacement stem but does not appear to match up, might have to get a real john deere stem if this can't be repaired.

 

[mekanik]

Clean the area where the stem threads in very well! Brake Clean and a small wire brush.
A deep 1 1/8" socket should work. There will be a torque spec for the new stem, don't over
tighten it.
If your looking for a job as a mechanic I'm pretty sure I know someone who would hire you.

 

[NH575E]

A thin nut base like that can be a challenge. You might try grinding the bevel off the socket opening to get a better bite. If that doesn't work it may be air chisel time. You will probably destroy it with and air chisel but it would most likely break it loose.

 

[Katherine A DeHaven]

only thing i really have with power is a battery operated impact wrench. how bad of an idea is that to loosen a big bolt? haha

 

[NH575E]

only thing i really have with power is a battery operated impact wrench. how bad of an idea is that to loosen a big bolt? haha

Might be more than enough as long as you keep the socket from slipping. The slight bevel in the socket opening makes that extremely difficult with a shallow base like is on the solenoid.

If you can grind the bevel off the socket and keep it square it might get enough grip to vibrate it loose with your impact.

A chisel and hammer is the next choice and last resort. Place the chisel edge against the corner of the flat and try to tap it counter clockwise with the hammer.

 

[Tinkerer]

That nut has already been pounded on.
A battery powered impact would be a good choice if you can adjust the impact power.
Be sure to use a 6 point socket. A 12 point will round off the flats in a heart beat.

 

[oarwhat]

I second a six point socket and grinding the end of the socket a touch to get rid of bevel. Make sure the socket bottom is flat after grinding.