John Deere 310 SE Project

[thepumpguysc]

Not the correct manual for his needs Tinkerer.. but thank you for sharing.. That’s for the electronic version of the Stanadyne pump called a “DE” pump.. it’s the biggest POS since the 5.7L w a flex ring..

 

[Tinkerer]

Not the correct manual for his needs Tinkerer.. but thank you for sharing.. That’s for the electronic version of the Stanadyne pump called a “DE” pump.. it’s the biggest POS since the 5.7L w a flex ring..

OOOPS !
I have the service manual for DB4 pump.
But it doesn't have the timing info Boone needs.

 

[thepumpguysc]

The newer pumps are “air timed” and a scribe line put on the outside mounting flange(ear) on the pump hsg..
No more lines to line up behind the side window..
Kinda screwed if the gear gets outta place.!!

 

[emmett518]

Here's the final before and after. She's about as good as she's gonna get.

Day I brought it home three months ago with my dad.

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Today with my boys.

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Wow!!!! Triple wow.

 

[emmett518]

What did you use? Maybe a large funnel attached to a hose? I'm soon to do this one myself.

The Deere mechanic used a hand operated pump to fill the transaxles. That was a million times faster than the barrel and tubing I rigged up. Spending the $70 on a pump seemed like a good idea.

 

[Tinkerer]

The newer pumps are “air timed” and a scribe line put on the outside mounting flange(ear) on the pump hsg..
No more lines to line up behind the side window..
Kinda screwed if the gear gets outta place.!!

I did read about the air timing in the manual. I was just curious.
As you know I leave pump repairs to the pros.

 

[boone]

I have the John Deere CTM331 technical manual in pdf. format.
If it is the correct one for your fuel system I can make it available for you to download.

Thanks Tinkerer! That looks like the one for the electronic DE10 pump. I think those are in the G model.

I do have the CTM207 Technical Manual for the 4.5 and 6.8 PowerTech. It describes both removal and installation for the DB4, but just doesn't have anything about timing other than the external marks on the plate and the flange. Therefore, I guess there's no setting engine to TDC and all that jazz. It can only go on one way.

 

[boone]

The newer pumps are “air timed” and a scribe line put on the outside mounting flange(ear) on the pump hsg..
No more lines to line up behind the side window..
Kinda screwed if the gear gets outta place.!!

Yeah, the DB4 doesn't have a window with the lines on it. I assume the gear can't come off as long as the front cover plate is on. I've ordered the JDG1560 drive gear puller. I'll be curious t to know how tight the pressed fit will be.

EDIT: I take that back. I guess when I have the gear cover off it might fit through? The manual does say not to let the washer on the shaft fall down in the cover. That'd be a mess.

 

[boone]

Wow!!!! Triple wow.

That's what I say when I see your machine LOL. Very nice machine, Emmett!

The Deere mechanic used a hand operated pump to fill the transaxles. That was a million times faster than the barrel and tubing I rigged up. Spending the $70 on a pump seemed like a good idea.

As seldom as I would change out that axle fluid, the tube works pretty well. But a pump would sure be handy. My minivan transmission is sealed and I have to do the tube thing with it too.

 

[Fred from MO]

Haven't cranked this machine in about 3 weeks. Even with added throttle - this time, it failed to start. It finally started after about 20 sec off and on the starter. Between cranks, I checked the lift pump and it was pegged out with pressure. I could also hear fuel going to back into the tank from the return line. So I'm fairly confident the IP was getting fuel.

To recap from the last page - new lift pump, new fuel filter. I cut the old one apart and found no hint of trash. Removed top of IP and checked the glass ball, blew compressed air thru it, it seem to be working. I blew air thru the return line - could hear bubbles in the fuel tank. Did find the shut-off solenoid housing was cracked, but seemed to be working.

SO...I removed the injectors today. They were DIRTY. I'm planning to remove the IP pump and have it rebuilt. It has the tapered shaft with a woodroof key. The service manual on the engine says nothing about timing the engine or the pump on removal or install...only to ensure the timing mark is on the front plate and the pump flange. I scribed a second mark as insurance. Just wanted to confirm no timing or locking needed before I remove this Stanadyne DB4429-5303. Thanks.

In case anyone references this in the future, no need to remove the exhaust or the air box.

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Thanks for the good pictures and advice Boone. I think you are slowly finding the culprit. Sometimes you have to work through a couple of systems by process of elimination. I hope others can give you advice on the pump but those injectors look nasty. Anything you do there would be an improvement even if its not the root cause. How many hours are on your machine again?

 

[boone]

Thanks for the good pictures and advice Boone. I think you are slowly finding the culprit. Sometimes you have to work through a couple of systems by process of elimination. I hope others can give you advice on the pump but those injectors look nasty. Anything you do there would be an improvement even if its not the root cause. How many hours are on your machine again?

Hey Fred. It only has about 4100 hours on it. I hope I'm narrowing in on the issue. Like you said, I'm glad I got the injectors out - they need a good cleaning. I'm mentally preparing myself that this might not fix the issue, but about the only other thing it could be is an air leak on the fuel line from the tank or the pickup tube, but I have a full tank in it, so it'd have to be at the top and I have no external fuel leaks.

 

[boone]

Little update. I got the IP off earlier this week.
I did pin the flywheel since loosening the nut (150 ft-lb) holding the IP was turning the engine.
The JD1560 puller was worth the $45. The pump shot like a gun coming off the tapered shaft. Little heat on the gear may have helped.
The IP gear was a bit wobbly after removal, so I could see how you could inadvertently jump a tooth.
The pump does have a timing window on the other side. I didn't know this.
Either way, pump and injectors are at a local shop getting inspected and tested.



I've still been thinking about air intrusion due to the start and die symptom.
While waiting, I took the supply line off the new transfer pump and put a clear hose on it, pulled fuel up, and pinched it off.
I'm looking to eliminate the factory supply line. It's old, but it's a heavy duty hydraulic line.





I'll let it sit this way for a week or so.

 

[thepumpguysc]

I like that puller.. I use it a lot..

 

[boone]

I like that puller.. I use it a lot..

It saved the day. When the pump broke free I figured either the puller broke, the gear broke or the pump came free. It scared me LOL. Thankfully it was the latter.

I hope I don't regret not getting you to rebuild this pump. Thanks for the correspondence via email. There are two reputable shops close to where i work. The one I took it to, seemed to be an honest guy. Hope he finds a smoking gun.

Before I get the pump back - if I don't find the fuel going down in the clear tube, I'm going to connect the supply line back to the transfer pump. Then put the clear hose on the pressure side of the transfer pump where it would go into the IP and see if there is any air getting in through the filter housing. Thoughts?

 

[thepumpguysc]

That’s where it should be if ur looking for a bleed back issue..
(On the pressure side going into the ip)
I’ll be real curious as to what they charged u..

 

[boone]

After 24 hours, no fuel movement on the low pressure supply side. I'll move it over to the pressure side tomorrow evening.

I'll keep you posted on cost.

 

[JL Sargent]

Boone, that is gonna be a sweet running tractor when you're done.

@thepumpguysc *** Pump guy, thank you for sharing! I'm an expert in my field (heavy industrial vibration monitoring/analysis) and I share my knowledge with customers and anybody thats interested in learning. I believe in Karma and what goes around does come back. I have learned so much here and other forums from like minded people such as yourself. I tip my hat to you sir.

 

[boone]

After 48 hours, no movement on the supply side.

Last night I moved the tube over to the IP inlet side. Pumped fuel up to the mark by the hose clamp. It dropped over night. I left the tube open on this end since the steel line goes up. No drip or anything on the tube connection.




My question is some flow back expected if there is nothing holding vacuum on the line? I plan to clamp it tonight to simulate the IP holding vacuum.

 

[Tinkerer]

Is there any chance the check ball for the fuel return line on top of the pump could be a problem ?

 

[boone]

Is there any chance the check ball for the fuel return line on top of the pump could be a problem ?

Good question. I don't know if that ball is supposed to hold a perfect seal or not. I tend to remember, not very well, but a few pages back when I took the top cover off, I blew air through the check ball to make sure it was clean. I blew air back the other direction and want to say, I could feel air, but I had high PSI on the hose. Didn't know if that was supposed to be completely sealed or not.