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John Deere 310 SE Project

Discussion in 'Tractor/Loader/Backhoes' started by boone, Apr 25, 2020.

  1. boone

    boone Senior Member

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Location:
    AL
    Hello all,

    Yellow fever has struck again. I drug home a nice but weathered 310 SE back in February. It's debatable as to whether it has more green mold and mossoak than yellow paint though.

    SN: T0310827306
    Engine Model: 4045TT050

    IMG_20200425_122701449.jpg

    I've posted a few questions about it here and there, but thought I would start posting my questions in the same thread so they don't get spread all over. I bought this machine back in February and have been trying to give it a little TLC while waiting for warmer digging weather.

    It's a 1997 310 SE with 3920 hours. Bought from the original owner. Picked it up one cold February day. Didn't think we'd get it started. It had two dead batteries, poor connections and hadn't been started in 4 months prior. I recruited my dad to help me go look at it and we brought two battery boosters. The owners son pulled up with a jumper cables and we finally got it to fire off after about an hour of messing with it. Drove it about 5 miles back to my house. I would stop along the way to check for major fluid leaks.

    Here's how she looked before I bought it.

    IMG_20200208_115820952_HDR.jpg

    IMG_20200208_115833320_HDR.jpg
     
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  2. boone

    boone Senior Member

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    I'm looking into service manuals...if anyone has a good place to get an electronic version it would be much appreciated.

    So one of the major leaks is the front engine seal.

    I'm neck deep into it :) Got out this morning while the rain was pitter-pattering on the roof and removed everything but the front cover. I have some questions.

    IMG_20200425_122958515.jpg

    1) Can I get the front engine seal out without removing the front engine cover? I'm thinking of inserting some screws into the seal to yank it over the crank shaft? There plenty of room on the seal for some self tapping screws.

    2) If the answer is no, can I get the front engine cover off without jacking up the front of the engine? It doesn't seem like I can based on how far out the engine cover will have to come to clear the crank shaft.

    IMG_20200425_122415118.jpg

    IMG_20200425_122425625.jpg

    Thanks in advance for any helpful advice...
     
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  3. Tinkerer

    Tinkerer Senior Member

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    On A Riverbank in IL. USA
    Nice looking 310 ya got there Boone. I cannot answer your seal question.
    But I have a question.
    Will this be like your Dresser 175 thread ? :D
    That was the most interesting project I have read about on here yet.
     
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  4. boone

    boone Senior Member

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    Tinkerer, seems like it's going to be a decent machine. It's rough around the edges but it's got good bones.

    Haha, that thread was a ride. I hope I'm not ripping the engine out of this machine. I'm not sure I'll have the material for a thread like that, but I have a few things I've done to it that I'll post up.
     
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  5. mg2361

    mg2361 Senior Member

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    Occupation:
    Equipment Mechanic/Technician
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    https://www.johndeeretechinfo.com/

    Absolutely. However there are special tools to remove the speedi sleeve (which you could probably remove without it, carefully) and a special tool to install the new seal which you would definitely need (if you get a seal from Deere). The new seal will be very different. The unitized seal from Deere is pressed on with the seal and sleeve together. Other option might be to match your old seal from a bearing /seal supplier and reuse the sleeve if it is in good shape.

    Make sure you clean up that nose on the crank before you start.
     
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  6. boone

    boone Senior Member

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    MG, I was hoping you would find this thread. That link helped me find the engine manual which had a detailed write up on the seal removal and install. Now to locate the tools. I may call couple dealers tomorrow about rental or something.

    I'll probably replace the water pump while I have everything apart.

    Out of curiosity, would one have to jack the engine up to get the cover off of this tractor?
     
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  7. mg2361

    mg2361 Senior Member

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    Yes, you would have to jack the engine up to get the timing gear cover off.
     
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  8. Nick G

    Nick G Active Member

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    Occupation:
    Former operator, farmer
    Location:
    Western WI
    Hi boone,
    I've got a 1998 310SE, it's got about 5540 hours on it now. Got it last fall, former municipal rig. I don't have any front seal expertise but good luck!
    nick
     
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  9. boone

    boone Senior Member

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    Hey Nick, I've heard of these machines going really high hour. This will be the last of the major leaks on mine to fix. After that I'm ready to start using it... Hopefully nothing pops up!
     
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  10. mg2361

    mg2361 Senior Member

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    Make sure to change all your fluids and filters including the rear axle.
     
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  11. boone

    boone Senior Member

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    How did you know I haven't changed out the rear axle? :) I've actually changed everything but that. But I do have the orings.
    I paid $10k for this machine and budgeted about $500 for filters and fluids. Unless the owner can show me his maintenance log, I can't stand to run a machine with unknown fluids. I bought all Wix filters from Rockauto. Here's what I've changed to date regarding filter and fluids.

    upload_2020-4-27_8-36-19.png

    I used the Travellers oil in the main hydraulic system, but decided to go with John Deere Hytran in the transmission and soon to be rear axle. When I drained the transmission, the fluid was clean but red, almost like fruit punch coolaid color. The Hytran I put in was not that red. Wondering if that's just normal clutch material color?
     
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  12. mg2361

    mg2361 Senior Member

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    If it was red then it has never been changed. The red comes from a dye they put in at the factory to find/identify leaks. Hygard that you buy from the dealer will not have any dye.

    I personally would not recommend any filter other than Deere filters. "If" I were to buy an aftermarket filter the only brand I would consider would be Donaldson, but that would be in a pinch if Deere filters weren't available.

    Just like filters I would only recommend quality oils. You made the correct choice for the transmission and the rear axle with purchasing Hygard, however the oil of choice now for the Deere backhoe's hydraulic system would be Deere's Hydrau. If you did not want to use that then I would have suggested you use 10W-30 engine oil. Hygard is no longer used in Deere hydraulic systems. With that being said you can still use Hygard in the hydraulic system of that machine.
     
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  13. boone

    boone Senior Member

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    Mystery solved on the red fluid. At least it's not ATF - I had that thought. Only 2000 hours overdue. Yeah, I'd love to use the good stuff for it all.

    When I bought the machine, I couldn't tell how much hydraulic fluid was in it. The site tube was frosted over. In fact, I think it was you that answered a question on replacing it. The dealer cut me off a 7" section of tubing at about $1/inch.

    IMG_20200328_182614260.jpg
     
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  14. boone

    boone Senior Member

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    I called my local dealers this morning and none stocked the old seal. They had all moved on to the new unitized seal. They don't loan out the tooling either...which I expected.

    I don't know that the cover allows for a clearance for a chisel to extract the old ring. Nor do I really trust myself with a cutting tool on the crank shaft. Maybe a dremel with a small cutting wheel could take it off?

    I found aftermarket seals for the 4045 on ebay and yesterdays tractor, "Front Crankshaft Seal for Part AR67942 and AT21608". It has the same dimensions as what I need and states it fits a 310E. I went ahead and ordered it. I'm hoping it fits. Hoping my wear ring is in good shape. I'm gambling $15 and a bit of time, but I'll take the risk. Will have to fabricate an extractor and installer, but I think we can come up with something.

    Worse case, I'll have to take the radiator and coolers back off, call the dealer to come out with all the tooling and install the new updated seal. Probably cost me $400 to pop the old ring off and install the new seal?
     
  15. boone

    boone Senior Member

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    Old seal is out.

    IMG_20200501_115014529.jpg

    However, I gave dad the wrong dimensions on the OD of the seal. I was thinking it was 3" instead it was 3.315". He made an extractor out of white oak for a 3" seal.

    IMG_20200501_115021219.jpg

    It worked, but it didn't get into the metal on the seal like we would've liked.

    IMG_20200501_115058458.jpg

    The wear ring is grooved so it's coming out. Besides the fact that we knicked the wear ring with the threads because of my off measurements, it's just too bad to reuse.

    I'll be getting a unitized seal after all. There goes that $15 :)

    IMG_20200501_120734524.jpg

    The ring appears to have a flange toward the back. Not sure yet on how I'm going to get it out.
     
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  16. doghead

    doghead Well-Known Member

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    I would guess if there is a lip, it is there for installation.

    Assuming the “speedy-sleeve” is installed with some type of loctite, I have a thought for removal.

    I think you could take a simple propane torch and heat the sleeve carefully(gently and somewhat quickly) and the thin layer of the sleeve should expand rapidly in comparison the the crankshaft hub. The heat would also neutralize the bond of a sealant I’d there is any.

    Just a thought that comes to mind.

    I have never removed one from a crankshaft like in this situation.

    It’s been decades since I used a speedy sleeve.(forgotten all I did know)
     
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  17. Fred from MO

    Fred from MO Well-Known Member

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    Hey Boone, Love the posts. I havent been on here regularly for some time. I just bought a 1999 310 SE as well. 2300 original hours. Was kept inside all its life. I am just beginning to start to use it but looking for advice on lots of things so I enjoy the posts.
     
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  18. Fred from MO

    Fred from MO Well-Known Member

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    Here is a quick view. Mine had a leak at the thermostat housing. Thats why the cover is off.
     
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  19. boone

    boone Senior Member

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    I worked on it yesterday for a bit and I got it off! It actually wasn't as bad of a job as I thought just a little meticulous. Surprisingly, I didn't find any loctite under the sleeve - it was oily. Used a little hand metal saw and cut the round tip off the blade so I could reach as far back to the flange as I could. Just slowly building a groove until the front tapered part was cut. Then used a tiny screw driver head and lightly punched it up under the seal and it came up and the whole thing came loose.

    IMG_20200502_151816152.jpg

    I was able to pull it out with some pliers.

    IMG_20200502_152603108.jpg

    Hoping to make it to Warrior Tractor on Monday to pick up a new seal. Once I have the seal we can see what kind of jig we need to build to install it. Making progress.
     
  20. Fred from MO

    Fred from MO Well-Known Member

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    upload_2020-5-3_7-7-8.png
     
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