Is this a grey market Hitachi?

[mfowler]

Can anyone tell me how to determine if this
https://www.rbauction.com/1994-HITACHI-EX200LC2?invId=9783280&id=ci&auction=CHEHALIS-WA-2017161

is a grey market machine? Hitachi EX200LC-2 Serial number 147-68492. All the instruction/warning stickers in the cab are in Japanese.

Thanks for any help here.

 

[580bob]

decals say it all ...its grey

 

[GregsHD]

Personally I would be more worried about it being a (before it's time electrical nightmare) dash 2 machine, than being a grey market.
Of course that all depends on: how cheap you can get it, what you want to do with it, and whether you are capable of doing your own repairs.

 

[mfowler]

Thanks for the input you guys. I'm looking for something to use on the ranch, but would really like to have something that has at least some level of dealer support. I guess if it goes cheap enough it's worth the gamble.

 

[John C.]

Don't know of any people who have had problems getting parts for a gray market Hitachi.

 

[mfowler]

Thanks for the reply John C. I probably worry too much. I'm sure you know a lot more about it than I do. But then I read this from an earlier thread on gray market Hitachis and wonder ...

Hitachi EX120-3 ECM

I am located in California in the United States and I have a Hitachi EX120-3 I have replaced the wiring harness and I need a new engine control module. Because this is a grey market machine no one here has the capability to program the ECM. is it possible to order one of these that has already been pre-programed to my machine? the following is the information for my machine:

EIN # Serial # Eqpmnt Type Make Model # Mf Yr Purch Dt InSrvc Dt Engine SN Make Eng MN Mf Yr HP Engine FN Disp

DW5J43 12V41234 Excavator Hitachi EX120-3 1994 9/16/1999 8E/JE Isuzu 4BD1-TPZ 1994 80 N/A 5.9L

I Have spoke with all the local dealers and even a bunch in Canada and I am not getting any help on this part. The Local Hitachi dealers are based through John Deere and have told me that they are not able to help me because they cannot program the ECM because it will all come up in Japanese. I am at a dead end and I really need this machine to work again all I ned is a new pre programmed ECM can anyone help me?

 

[excavator]

There have always been some dealers who refuse to deal with a grey market machine, especially if they are both a Deere and Hitachi dealer. On the west coast the grey market industry took a lot of money away from the local dealers so there was a bad feeling towards anything grey market. I've not had any problems getting parts but I have found that in the last few years Deere/Hitachi has been no longer stocking some parts for the -2 and -3 machines. This past summer we tried to get a lower radiator hose for an EX220-2 and it's no longer available. Doesn't have anything to do with grey market, it just seems they're just no longer stocking some parts for the older machines.

 

[John C.]

Mr. excavator is correct about the individual dealers. I would add though that if you get a parts book with the machine those part numbers are readable and the drawings are easily readable even through the descriptions are in Japanese. If you can get a part number you can get that part through the dealer network. I've had to get parts for a number of grays in the last few years and had no problem with the local dealer network. They even had the parts books for the machines. You check with your local dealer before you purchase the machine though to get a read on how they will act towards your machine.

On the EX machines the computers come programed from the factory. I don't know about the ZX machines but suspect them to be nearly the same but you might have to set the governor control to the computer.

 

[farmlion]

So how do you tell just from looking at it that its "grey"?

 

[580bob]

like I said earlier Japanese decals in cab or elsewhere on machine or if they were all removed the radio wont pickup any stations they are all wrong frequencies

 

[John C.]

It appears to me the machine has been prepped a bit for the sale and the outside didn't have the usual decals one would associate with a gray market machine. However if the decals in the cab and on the window are in some type of oriental writing it is safe to assume it is gray. As I recall back in the early to mid nineties the dealers didn't have access to anything smaller than a 300 size machine so if you wanted one this size or smaller you could only get a gray one.

I wouldn't trust the hour meter reading and the front idlers are out enough to tell me the tracks are stretched to the point of being snakey. The black soot on the muffler input indicates the exhaust system is nearly burned through which likely means the turbocharger might not have a lot of time left. Those engines though were bullet proof with a little bit of maintenance. Have you done your home work on pricing?

 

[wilko]

Thanks for the reply John C. I probably worry too much. I'm sure you know a lot more about it than I do. But then I read this from an earlier thread on gray market Hitachis and wonder ...

Hitachi EX120-3 ECM

I am located in California in the United States and I have a Hitachi EX120-3 I have replaced the wiring harness and I need a new engine control module. Because this is a grey market machine no one here has the capability to program the ECM. is it possible to order one of these that has already been pre-programed to my machine? the following is the information for my machine:

EIN # Serial # Eqpmnt Type Make Model # Mf Yr Purch Dt InSrvc Dt Engine SN Make Eng MN Mf Yr HP Engine FN Disp

DW5J43 12V41234 Excavator Hitachi EX120-3 1994 9/16/1999 8E/JE Isuzu 4BD1-TPZ 1994 80 N/A 5.9L

I Have spoke with all the local dealers and even a bunch in Canada and I am not getting any help on this part. The Local Hitachi dealers are based through John Deere and have told me that they are not able to help me because they cannot program the ECM because it will all come up in Japanese. I am at a dead end and I really need this machine to work again all I ned is a new pre programmed ECM can anyone help me?

I remember this post. Is this a fact that a new ECM for one of these needs programming? Always assumed they came from the box knowing everything they need to know for the specific machine they were supplied for.

 

[spitzair]

I have a machine just like that one, just a few serial number digits off. I had to do a complete rewire of the machine and was able to get all the parts I needed from my local dealer. They are quite popular over here so they do stock a lot of stuff. Anything they didn't have in stock they were able to get airfreighted from Tokyo within 24 hours. Of course that came with the corresponding price tag but if you didn't need it in a hurry they could get it regular freight in about 2 weeks at a reasonable cost, and you got the proper parts. A fellow who also had one of these things bought parts off ebay from an aftermarket supplier and they were not the right parts when they showed up so be careful if going that route. There was no need to program the computer on my machine either, it comes ready to go, just plug it in and give 'er.

 

[wilko]

Spitzair, how much was the harness and computer? (and how long ago did you buy it?)

 

[spitzair]

The harness came I 3 parts and if I recall they were all together just under $3000CDN and the computer was $1700CDN, and that was in 2011. They had the harnesses in stock but the computer had to come from Tokyo, it arrived within 2 weeks of ordering it. At the time I didn't think the harness was an issue since I spent days and days fixing it so I just ordered the computer while I was away working so it was waiting for me when I got home. I then realized the old harness was bad even though I spent many hours and dollars trying to fix it, so I ordered the new harness and had it the next day. I could have gone and got it and had it the same day but I would've lost almost the entire day driving so they just put it on the greyhound for me and I spent the day removing the old harness instead.

 

[Randy88]

Don't assume you can get parts for any grey market machine, ask locally first if they'll sell you parts before you buy any machine, I went around with a local dealer not when I bought mine, but years later when dealerships changed hands, seems the new dealership decided they'd rather sell machines than parts, told me straight up they'd trade mine in as is and I could buy a good used, non grey market machine..................................told them great, I'd do just that, but not with them in a different brand completely, along with every single piece of equipment of their brand and color I owned...............................corporate had a few meetings after quite a few guys told them the same thing and several months later.....................they had a change of heart and now will bend over backwards to get me whatever I need for my grey market hitachi.

For what its worth, Hitachi makes a great excavator, hands down by far the best machine I've ever owned in all of the machines I have, but I'd tell you to not buy that machine today, especially not a grey market machine, its too old and many of the parts will soon no longer be even able to get. With the deal deere made with Hitachi and how some of the deere dealers have treated customers in the last few years, I'd opt for another brand completely myself. Komatsu, Case, Linkbelt or Cat would be towards the top of my list and in about that order as well, a few might come before Cat on my list if I thought about it long enough and was seriously looking for another excavator today to buy. Dealer support would be a big deal to me, dealer stability would be in second place in my thoughts as well.

 

[mfowler]

Thanks for all the great replies. I'll be looking at the machine today. From all the comments here it sounds like I should avoid this machine, but if it goes for under 15k I will be pretty tempted. I will only be putting 100-200 hours a year on whatever I get, so I can't justify spending much more than 20-25k.

 

[spitzair]

Overall from the pictures that machine doesn't look bad. When you go take a look, check the wiring under the exhaust system on the way over to the pumps. Looking at the pictures there's already a leak between the turbo and the muffler. The wiring harness runs under the muffler at the front of the engine compartment and they have a problem area there in that if there's a leak at the front of the muffler the exhaust wreaks havoc on the wires there. The new harnesses now come in 3 pieces whereas before they were just 2, and they have a plug in the engine compartment so you can replace just the wiring from there to the pumps if and when the exhaust ruins the wires in there. If the machine still has the 2 piece harness you'll have to replace the whole chassis harness in order to upgrade to the 3 piece harness.

 

[mfowler]

It does not look to me like there has been a wiring upgrade on this machine. Some of the insulation on the wires running from the alternator do feel pretty cooked and brittle. Sorry, can't post pics. There is a lot of grunge and oil in bottom of the engine compartment and below the hydraulic pumps. Can't tell where the leak is coming from, but there's an empty five gallon bucket of hydraulic oil sitting next to the air cleaner and the fluid level is low in the reservoir. From the looks of things could be leaking from more than one location.

The cylinders all look pretty good. There is definitely some slop in the tracks, standing on the pads you can rock them back and forth some. Other than these items I like the machine. The stick, bucket, and boom feel pretty tight, swing brake also. Comes with two parts books, a technical manual, and a workshop manual.