Is there a better way to straighten Vee shaped radiator fins?

[treemuncher]

My machines kick up a lot of debris and folding of the radiator fins is an everyday occurrence as the dust/debris is blown at high velocity into the heat exchangers. As part of my regular maintenance to keep things cool enough, I do a complete washout of my radiators with hot high pressure water. Straightening of the fins is also part of my maintenance. This, along with other design changes, has kept my machines running cool on the hottest of days with constantly heavy loading.

I've got the combs for regular straight and wavy heat exchangers. Those are quick and easy to repair in most cases. But, the Vee shaped fins are a major problem and exactly what I have on my most used machines. The only method I've found for these, so far, has been long, thin micro needle nose pliers or, mostly used, a long straight pick.

Does anyone have any better tricks to straighten these Vee shaped fins fast and efficiently? I spent over 12 hours last year trying to straighten out one machine's fins. It was worth the time as well as it cools so much better now but there has to be a better way.

I added extra hardware cloth guarding to minimize large debris intake, which helped, but I am still having fold over of outer peripheral fins from debris impacts.

 

[daveyclimber]

I have the same issues, doing the same type of work you do. Here is what i use. After the cores are good and washed and gunk softened up, i use metal bbq skewers and push them through the core obviously bein careful to not puncture the tubes. It will straighten the fins most of the time or at least tear off the curl on the end of the fin. Then i wash the cores again and if access allows i use a couple different pairs of knipex miniature relay adjusting pliers, one pair straight and one pair angled. They are used to smooth and fine tune the profile of the fins. It sure aint any fun but its the best way ive come up with. Never ceases to amaze me how much junk you can clean out of the cores, even after being able to see through them.

 

[treemuncher]

Well, I've gotten about 2 years of service out of the last good cleaning/straightening procedure. Temps have been running a little bit hot for my liking again and there are obvious signs of fold-over damage from debris, again. This air-oil-coolant radiator block gets pressure washed regularly as needed, sometimes daily. The additional 1/4" mesh hardware cloth fan inlet cover and upgraded intake screens have also done a great job at keeping out too much trash in the cooling fan but still not perfectly clean - there is fold-over.

I've finally determined that the best tool for these fins are a set of round tipped micro pliers and a flat blade pick. I also have one set of customized micro needle nose pliers for really deep issues - these have been ground flat on the outer 2 faces of the nose portion so that they fit into the slots without bending the fins into a rounded shape.

It is still very slow, painful work to do this on the machine. Sometimes, the Golden Lubricant is helpful to compensate for the cramped work position and just plain tediousness of the job. The alternative is to remove the radiator cores but that would require some major disassembly. I've also found soaking a good soap/degreaser solution will lube the fins enough to allow the pliers to slide better during the process and soak out the remaining dirty cores. A long zip tie of suitable size works well to punch through any dirt clogged cores for final wash down. I prefer a 10 degree pressure washer tip to get a final blast out completed. Daily maintenance with my service truck's pressure washer is usually with a 25 degree tip.

Maybe these suggestions will help others. If nothing else, I have a reference point available for future needs when I can't remember what I did the last time.....
int

 

[Tinkerer]

But, how many Coors per radiator ?

 

[John C.]

That brings back lots of sour memories of low horse D8H dozers and crunching into the left side past the generator after the fan guard was removed. A day of that and the body felt like it was a punching bag for a heavy weight boxer.

 

[treemuncher]

But, how many Coors per radiator ?

Cases per radiator of the Golden Lubricant would likely keep me calmed down and somewhat pain free in the cramped work positions. Those 2 lasted me about 24 square inches at the end of the day, and a long one at that. First and only 2 of the day. Caffeine would be a better choice to get it done faster. It's certainly a tedious and cramping job with the coolers still in the machine.

I guess I better not lose those little round tipped pliers. I looked for some at HF tools today and there were none to be had. Not sure which tool place I found that little set at. Those are the best thing I've found for these type of fins. Much faster and more precise than anything else I've tried, found or built.

 

[Truck Shop]

Radiator comb-radiator shops use them.

 

[treemuncher]

Radiator comb-radiator shops use them.

I have a selection of those tools and they work great on external fin type coolers. Look at the picture of what I am dealing with - combs don't work on V-type fins that are set internally. My life would be a lot simpler if this was an external type of fin. I've also tried the finger-comb type and they don't work, either.

The only good news I've found about this is that the small tapered round nose pliers that I do have are readily available on Ebay for $5-$10. I've ordered some extras and I will be making one or two sets of modified pliers with angled tips after some torch time. These rounded tips allow me to run the pliers over the fold in the metal and swage it back flat, quickly. Standard flat tips won't allow that without severe drag. Ideally, there would be roller bearing tips that would allow a true rolling action across the metal.

It's not my first rodeo with radiator issues. I'm pretty diligent on keeping them clean and customizing guarding to keep these issues minimized.

 

[hosspuller]

How much space do you have in front of these radiators ? Perhaps a dual set of louvers ... make the projectiles change direction twice before impacting the radiator

 

[treemuncher]

After about 4 days of off & on work (mostly due to cramping, aches in tight space), I got the entire 37" x 48" assembly straightened out to my satisfaction. I put a 1/4" Hardware Cloth protector directly over the finned area to absorb any impacts of debris and keep the fins from getting folded over again. My only concern is that this will impede airflow too much to allow proper cooling. Easy enough to cut out the zip ties if this is a problem. I won't know until I try it out on a really hot day.

I went from damage like this:


To a finished repair like this:


There are still a few damaged fins but nearly 98-99% are in very good condition. The Jewler's conical tipped pliers along with a flat blade pick when needed are the best tools for this job out of everything that I tried, including customized micro needle nose pliers. The trick is to swage the fins back into a flat shape over multiple passes with the pliers. If you can't insert the pliers due to bad fold over, open the gap with the flat pick first.

Most important is a good lubrication when swaging these fins. The degreaser was not dense enough to provide a slick enough coating. I switched over to Dawn dish soap applied with an acid brush and that worked well but caused a lot of bubbles at final wash out. Get the pliers into the fin and use gentle compression on the first pass and then heavier pressure on the second pass. Sometimes, a third of fourth pass is required for really bad fins. Be sure to keep the pliers perpendicular and get each fin as straight as possible to the air flow. It is a very slow and tedious process but the only way that I know of to restore one of these heat exchangers to near new performance.

On wash out and daily/weekly maintenance, I use a 4 gpm 4,000 psi pressure washer with 10 degree or 25 degree tips for wash out most of the time. Adjust the pressure and distance by "feel of hand". If the flow onto your fingernail cuticles causes you pain, it's going to be painful on the radiator, too. Adjust the pressure or distance to figure out where it hurts but is not ripping up your hands - that's the same pressure and distance your radiator should be able to handle IF you keep it blasting at a straight approach angle. I usually keep mine adjusted so that I'm shooting at 8"-12" from the face of the heat exchanger. Due to the fan, unless I do a full maintenance disassembly, I can only wash out from the engine side and push it out the way it came in. I try to do a good soak down with degreaser if I have channels that keep spitting dirt back at me. Don't allow that dirt to stay there long or it will be a bigger pain, later. Long zip ties work well to punch through difficult, clogged channels. and allow water to flow and finish the wash out.

As for the suggestion of more louvers, I don't have the room. My machine has external louvers to start (factory) and them I added custom 1/2" hardware cloth over 4"x4" cattle panel pre-screening. I then added 1/4" hardware cloth over the factory fan screens to limit ingestion of debris there. I was still getting fold-over. I've also added more insulation and the final fin cover screen that I am hoping will be the final solution to these issues. I create a lot of flying debris and dust to be dealt with. I might still have to add a rear hanging debris flap.

 

[treemuncher]

The fin combs work great on the air conditioning heat exchanger. I wish they worked on the Vee shaped fins, too. That would have saved me a ton of time. You can see my custom primary screens behind the AC condenser.



Repaired radiator with hardware cloth cover zip tied in.


Back together and ready to restore plumbing/electical connections.

 

[hosspuller]

Now I understand ... I think ...It's the fan blades doing the damage. Any particle that gets to the fan is thrown by the blade into the fins. In your photo, the blades are rotating counter clockwise ... Right ?

Is there a way to change the fan to pull air through the coil ?

 

[treemuncher]

Now I understand ... I think ...It's the fan blades doing the damage. Any particle that gets to the fan is thrown by the blade into the fins. In your photo, the blades are rotating counter clockwise ... Right ?

Is there a way to change the fan to pull air through the coil ?

Correct - the blades sling debris into and across the fins and normally spins in a counterclockwise rotation until the automatic fan reverse kicks in. (operator programable frequency and duration) Or, I press the "fan cleanout" button to manually run the reverse cycle. Air operated pitch control for reversing the flow via a tiny compressor. Every time that reverse cycle was run 2 weeks ago during the heat, the temps would climb at least 3 degrees or more until the cycle went back to normal suction from the rear.

I would not want the fan reverse for long as it would them pull hot air from the engine compartment and excessive dust quantities from the tracks. This machine has the best air management of any machine that I've run as in normal operations it rarely clogs the radiator, blows track dust away from the machine, it runs well below "hot" thresholds and the engine bay stays reasonably cool now that I've insulated the exhaust to pipe the heat out.

I was out working it today and my hydraulic temp level is 10 degrees C cooler when really working it hard. The engine is also running at least 5-7 degrees C cooler. Ambient temps were a little cooler and drier than last week but I was also constantly pulling on a 15-20 degree pitch hillside. I'm satisfied that it is cooling much better than it was 2 weeks ago. One less thing to worry about for a while. Now if I can just find reasonably priced sprockets.....

 

[hosspuller]

Air intake management is your answer to avoiding fin damage then... I notice the back intake louver catches falling dirt instead of shedding dirt.. Is the top of the compartment open too ? Picture of the opened rear door seems to show an open top. Where is the dirty air coming from ? As you said "...blows track dust away from the machine"

 

[treemuncher]

The dirty, dusty air comes from under the machine from the mulcher discharge and from the tracks. The intake louvers bring in the cleanest possible air from the top rear of the machine. The air discharge louvers aim air down onto the tracks and blow dust away from the sides of the machine. It is a well designed system, much better than any others that I own.

If I did as you suggested and pulled air from below, I would be picking up all the discharge from the mulcher as well as from the final drives. I would be sucking chips, dust, rocks and mud if that were the case. I have carefully sealed all of the intake air to pull through the back end of the machine via gasket seals. This has eliminated much of the stray sticks and vines that used to come in through the sides with great frequency.

When it's dry out, I'm lucky to see the cutterhead anything more than 50% of the time unless the wind is right. This machine runs in some severe conditions at times. Lots of leaves and pine needles falling all of the time. Following pics of a typical jobsite as it progresses through the day.

 

[hosspuller]

Try a helicopter turbine intake https://patents.google.com/patent/RU2752445C1/en

No seriously, I used to air-vey materials in a factory. Success was keeping the air velocity up and keeping direction changes minimal or gradual. You would be helped by reducing air velocity and making sharp direction changes...then the dirt drops out of the air stream.

 

[Tags]

That pic of your progress is impressive...it may be painful to work on that radiator but what's your other option, overheat the unit and blow the motor or a pump? It really makes a big difference when it's your machine and you are the only operator, imagine if that was owned by a large company with several operators? Probably wouldn't last very long....

 

[Tones]

Is there anyway of fitting the same type of screen as your C140 has? They worked well on mine in similar ambient temperatures and the radiator never suffered the damage you're getting.

 

[treemuncher]

Is there anyway of fitting the same type of screen as your C140 has? They worked well on mine in similar ambient temperatures and the radiator never suffered the damage you're getting.

I've tried looking for that type of replacement material in the accordian style fold - difficult to find the punched material, very pricey and more difficult to find someone to put the folds into it. I trashed a side screen on my Barko 937 and replaced it with a flat section of punched plate of similar open percentage. There was a noticeable about of loss in air flow and temperature control. Barko wanted $1,800 for one of four screen panels if I remember correctly. The C140 does not require anywhere near the amount of air that the 8300 does and the C140 had the oil cooler/condenser set above the machine, not in a parallel arrangement for one airflow. It's not a fair comparison and the 8300 needs a whole lot more air to compensate for the horsepower.

Unless I had the proper amount of square area for required air flow, I would be choking down the amount of air flowing through the machine's cooling system and be back to overheating. I could remove the louvers but then I would lose all rear protection for the condenser and fan - that's not going to happen - I only have a camera for rear view. That fan spins at close to 2,500 rpms and pushes a LOT of air. As long as my hardware cloth cover over the fins works well, I'm calling this maintenance work a success. I'll be working it hard tomorrow and the high will be in the upper 80's. If I don't hit 70 deg C on the hydraulic oil when working a big tree at WOT, everything is good.



This Barko 937 moves even more air than the 8300 does, a LOT MORE AIR. Most of the noise from this machine is the cooling fan rather than the screaming trees. Air is pulled in through the side screens, across the engine bay and then blown out the rear of the machine. There is so much dust with this machine that the fan blades have noticeable wear from the sand impact. I can build up over 4" of debris in the engine compartment in a day. The air is pulled across the hot engine & exhaust before hitting the heat exchangers resulting in decreased cooling efficiency. If it pulled fresh air from the rear, and the exhaust was piped out to the side like the 8300, the dust and debris would be blown away from the machine and allow it to run cooler and cleaner. Unlike the tracked machine, this 937 does a good 6 mph or more and that speed would allow more heat to be sucked into the rear. As bad as this pic looks, this was not that dusty. I've been in much worse situations where I don't see the head for a significant part of the day.

 

[Tones]

I fully understand where you're coming from and good on you. Having the oil cooler separated from the radiator is a smart idea in this game. A bloke here separated the oil cooler on his RC100 that was used for mulching and mounted it the same as Rayco/Fecon have. There can be a lot of heat soak between the 2 coolers when they are mounted close together. That perforated steel is hexie here as well and you can only buy it in full sheets 1.2 x 2.4 metres. Folding it is the easy part.