Hydraulic Oil - What to run, need an expert

[Squizzy246B]

I had a bad experience awhile back when my business partner decided he would do me a favour and prep my CAT 246B for the next days work. Being the kind soul he his...he inadvertently filled up the hydraulic tank with diesel. :spaz

Anyway, cut to the chase..The machine was new and had whatever grade Cat hydraulic oil in it that it shipped downunder with. My local dealer wasn't exactly sure ("its the red stuff :Banghead" ) other than to say it will be a synthetic hydraulic oil. The only oil they had in stock (it was a sunday) that they could guarantee was compatible with what was in the system was a SAE 10W hydraulic oil.

I dropped the contents of tank, re-filled, started the machine cycled the hydraulics and changed the filter, just to be on the safe side. This got me working again.

Now summer is approaching and temps here will exceed 104 deg F. Our minimums are above freezing. Checking around the tech department and other operators most just run SAE 15W40 engine oil in the hydraulic system so that they only have one type of oil. The overwhelming consensus was that I would experience hydraulic fade with the 10W.

So whats the consensus. The manual says I can run CAT MTO (what the hell is that) "OR" 15W40 (API CH-4) the same spec as CAT state for the engine. I don't see that its a huge advantage to run the same type of oil given that the hydraulic system will only get a change once a year. If I stay with a dedicated hydraulic oil I know its definetley compatible with whats in the system.

The guts of my question (finally ) is SAE ratings don't tell you much about the oil type other than its viscosity performance.... I'd be reluctant to change to an oil type thats not compatible with the remainder of the oil thats contained in the cylinders and pipework and require multiple flushes.

Or doesn't it really matter that much :bash Easy with the brand names guys as a lot of what you may use in North America has a different name down here.

 

[salesrep]

Cat primarily reccomends the use of a SAE 10 TO-4 fluid in the hydraulics, SAE 30 TO-4 fluid in the powershift transmission and SAE 50 TO-4 fluid in the differentials.

Run the 15-40 in the engine.

 

[dayexco]

put in what's spec'd...the price of a tranny/hydraulics worth the price of a filter/oil change?

 

[salesrep]

"put in what's spec'd...the price of a tranny/hydraulics worth the price of a filter/oil change?"
Ditto

 

[Squizzy246B]

put in what's spec'd...the price of a tranny/hydraulics worth the price of a filter/oil change?

Well I wasn't going to run snake oil :beatsme

I was hoping to hear what other operators might be running.

 

[salesrep]

The guys I deal with run the cat speced to-4 fluid.Sae 10,30,50 depending on the ap.
Cat has one of their own that mobil makes and of course mobil has one both of which both will not void any warranties and meet the specs that Cat specifies on paper.
Most major oil co.s have a fluid that meets the to-4 specs on paper.

Your Manual calls for Mto.
Cat Makes one or a good Univerisal tractor fluid will work.
Details here.
http://www.cat.com/cda/components/fullArticleNoNav?ids=149474&languageId=7

ps. I would also encourage you to purge the system as well to make sure get all of the contaminants out. Which is a good idea when switching brands as well.

 

[Squizzy246B]

The guys I deal with run the cat speced to-4 fluid.Sae 10,30,50 depending on the ap.
Cat has one of their own that mobil makes and of course mobil has one both of which both will not void any warranties and meet the specs that Cat specifies on paper.
Most major oil co.s have a fluid that meets the to-4 specs on paper.

Your Manual calls for Mto.
Cat Makes one or a good Univerisal tractor fluid will work.
Details here.
http://www.cat.com/cda/components/fullArticleNoNav?ids=149474&languageId=7

ps. I would also encourage you to purge the system as well to make sure get all of the contaminants out. Which is a good idea when switching brands as well.

Salesrep - Thanks for the help

 

[dayexco]

it wasn't my intent to be a smart ass there....what i do whenever i buy a piece of equipment is take my operator's manual to my lubricant vendor and ask if he can supply the lubricant's that meet the manufacturer's specs...typically they can. brand name wouldn't concern me much as long as they met the OEM spec

 

[salesrep]

Dayexcon
"the lubricant's that meet the manufacturer's specs...typically they can. brand name wouldn't concern me much as long as they met the OEM spec"

Day, right on the money. As I have stated here before the oem spec from the manual is exactly the correct starting point when determining which fluid to use.

"brand name wouldn't concern me much as long as they met the OEM spec"

While going with a min spec any brand oil and following recommended oil change intervals with min spec oil will generally not do harm, quite obviously I am in the camp that above min speced oil will treat your machines and wallet more favorably.

Hydraulic fluid being a good example of this. Every 18 degrees lower temp. doubles oil and machine life.

 

[dayexco]

salesrip,

I buy all of my fuel,lubricants from Cenex. It is my understanding that they refine, package oils,grease, etc. for many equipment manufacturer's. Cenex has a plan if you use their lubricants at the OEM's recommended change intervals, that they will pay for the cost of any overhaul should you have a failure due to one of their products.....

The Total Protection Plan Warranty offers the users of Cenex lubricants up to 10 years or 10,000 hours of warranty coverage, plus a unique warranty—the best of its kind
Total Protection Plan Warranty benefits include:
Up to 10 years or 10,000 hours of protection. The longest coverage available in the industry.
No enrollment fee. Some equipment manufacturers charge up to $3,000 for their warranties.
No deductible. Unlike standard warranties, which require up to a $500 deductible when a covered part/component repair or replacement is needed, we cover 100% of the covered costs.
No owner burden of proof. If parts covered by the warrant break down, we'll fix or replace them free of charge—no questions asked—as long as the owner complies with terms of the warranty.
Transferable. Warranty may be transferred from the original owner to one or more subsequent buyers for the remainder of the warranty term.

I wasn't implying that I go to the shelf and grab the cheapest crap, no name product.....What I was getting at is, I see no reason to buy cat, deere, case labeled products when they were probably refined and packaged by a company like Cenex who has a wonderful reputation for quality products at a considerable savings over OEM packaged lubricants

 

[salesrep]

dayexco,
No need for typo name calling.
You were the one that stated that you would not be concerned with brand so much.

"If parts covered by the warranty break down, we'll fix or replace them free of charge—no questions asked—as long as the owner complies with terms of the warranty." This is no different than any reputable oil company, which in essence says that if the lubricant fails they will stand behind their product. With there wording they are saying you must change oil at the manufacturer's set oil change interval which is based on min spec oil. All cI-4 oils will hold up with manufacturer min oil change intervals. The more you change oil the more you buy.

While Cenex makes a pretty good oil, However I have seen independent tests showing that bottles pulled off the shelf show that their Tms oil falls short of the ASTM-4683 high temp high shear test of the Mack and Detroit Diesel spec Neither the TMS or the 518 passed the Orbahn astm d-6278 shear test specs and while passing the CI-4 specs neither passed the Ci-4 plus,Mack, or DD powerguard tests for Noack volitility astm test d-4800.

"I see no reason to buy cat, deere, case labeled products when they were probably refined and packaged by a company like Cenex who has a wonderful reputation for quality products at a considerable savings over OEM packaged lubricants"
Well said.

Fyi
Cat is made by Mobil. Fl viscosity makes New holland. Chevron makes John Deere.

 

[Steve Frazier]

I've read this thread several times and fail to see where the need to have it become a personal conflict occurred. One shortcoming of internet posting like this is you don't see or hear what emotion is used while the author is typing. In cases where one might suspect he is being ridiculed, please re-read the post and question whether another understanding might apply and give the author the benefit of the doubt. This will help the Board run much smoother and prevent hard feelings between respectable members due to a simple misunderstanding of intent.

Thanks guys!!

 

[dayexco]

then i should ignore the "dayexcon", huh?

 

[digger242j]

Whether they were typos or intentional misspellings, it looks like the score is even at 1-1. This would be a good place to call it a draw.

I'm puzzled. Salesrep quoted dayexco's first post and added "ditto", and quoted twice from a later posts and added, "Day, right on the money" and, "well said". I honestly can't see what's causing the friction. ("Friction"--pretty good pun for a lubrication thread, huh? )

 

[ejb]

i have the same problem finding what oils to use in an akerman h12b excavator gear, hyd.,turet,torque conv. and track gear case oil. if you have any info. please let me know. thanks ejb

 

[bobby king]

Squizzy:

MTO Multipurpose Tractor Oil. Rule of thumb for hydraulic fluids VS. tractor fluids. AW32 - 10 weight (approx.) transmission fluid AW46 - 20 Weight AW68 - 30 Weight. Universal Tractor Fluid covers 10-30 WT. applications. Valvoline Tech support General information.

 

[Nige]

FYI, in climate conditons (temperature-wise anyway) very similar to Western Australia we are using Mobil HD10W in all our hydraulic systems, including Cat skid-steers which I take from your forum name is what you're operating, and I have never seen a case of hydraulic fade. HD10W is an oil that meets Cat TO-4 specification. I personally would not use 15W-40 engine oil in hydraulics (although some manufacturers say you can) - to me it's a 2nd-best oil in the case of owners who don't happen to have an oil to hand that is specifically for hydraulic systems.

 

[blitz138]

7 year old thread? Hows the weather Nige?

 

[Nige]

High of 28 degC (82F) forecast for Sunday, and that's basically in the middle of winter. Could be worse I suppose.

 

[blitz138]

ya could be I guess, -26 in Wyoming